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Thread: *Official* New Zealand in Australia 2019/20

  1. #4936
    Hall of Fame Member hendrix's Avatar
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    Haven't managed to catch much of this series.

    Australia played very well and have the makings of a fantastic team. Superb pace and spin bowling and batting.

    Disappointing from NZ's point of view. I do think we tend to get spooked when playing Australia. Some rather questionable selections after what had been a period of consistency. Questionable shot selection.
    Last edited by hendrix; 06-01-2020 at 11:49 AM. Reason: private
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  2. #4937
    International Coach wellAlbidarned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flametree View Post
    Yes, it feels like if Boult isn't knocking back an opener or two, NZ's only hope is Wagner Wagnering the oppo.... I thought the batting was screwed the moment the selectors forced themselves to pick Raval for the first test.

    Also has to be mentioned that NZ's fielding in this series was pretty shoddy on the whole bar a brilliant moment or two. Australia took a couple of catches today (Lyon, Pattinson) that showed up NZ's efforts.

    Sticking Australia in at Melbourne was a pretty dumb move in retrospect since the game plan of batting first and long seems to be the way to go in Australia.
    nah that was a great example of our bowling not being good enough. Was swinging and nipping all over the place. Should've rolled them for 200-300 max within the day. Too many free leaves outside off. If we'd batted first reckon we'd have been rolled for under 100 and we'd be asking the opposite question.
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  3. #4938
    International Debutant Meridio's Avatar
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    Yeah, think I saw somewhere that the ball swung more on that first morning for us at the MCG than it ever had since they've been measuring it. We simply didn't attack the stumps enough.

  4. #4939
    International Debutant Meridio's Avatar
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    Right then. Having actually largely not been too down in the dumps about this series, despite our performance - I suspect mainly because of having bigger things to care about, in my own life and around the world atm - I did get pretty pissed off at our capitulation yesterday. It's been like a performance from the bad old days of 10 years ago, where we'd have one or two minor positives in a series where in general we'd been flogged. The most disappointing thing about it is that we're a much better team than we were back then, and have performed well around the world under pressure in difficult conditions, yet here we just crumbled. And yes, I know Australia are good, their bowling attack in particular, and in their own backyard they're extremely hard to beat at the best of times, but we simply didn't turn up, and most annoyingly, I think a lot of our problems have been self-inflicted:

    - we went straight from a dead flat pitch in Hamilton against England to a day-night test in Perth with only a few days preparation and without a single warmup game. On a hiding to nothing from the start.
    - we then had 10 days between tests and only had one game scheduled for that time, against essentially a Victorian second XI. And one day of that was cancelled. WTF. Why didn't we have a proper competitive 4 day game in that time? Or two 3 dayers? Give our batsmen the opportunity to get more used to extra bounce, and gain a bit of confidence, and get a few more overs into Boult..
    - why tf we picked a squad for two series at one time is still beyond me. Backed ourselves into a corner.
    - debuting Ferguson after he'd barely bowled any overs in the month previous. Sure, it's unlucky he broke down, and maybe he would have anyway if he'd played against England, but it's poor planning and doesn't help.
    - persevering with Santner for far too long. Essentially picking a spinner for his batting when he has known issues against the short ball. Completely muddled thinking.
    - Southee non selection fiasco in the third test. Yeah, he was poor at Melbourne. But after you've just lost Williamson and Boult (plus Nicholls) from your previous team why are you throwing away the experience from one of your other senior players - for the sake of an extra 5km/h from someone who averaged 45 at Test level? It does reek of problems off the field.

    We definitely had some bad luck here - the toss in Perth (and, less crucially, the toss in Sydney after we'd picked two spinners), marginal lbw decisions on key players, Labuschagne's outside edges never going to hand, particularly in Melbourne, the injuries/illnesses - but we've just mentally fallen to pieces. Has been a problem against Australia for a long time, and with the fighting ability we've shown as a team in the last couple of years, I really expected better. Not necessarily to win, but to compete. Think there were signs of psyching ourselves out - e.g. Southee getting involved in all the childish bullshit Wade gets up to - and I do speculate that there's been divisions in the camp about how to play. As much as it's a cliche to blame the coach every time something goes wrong, some of our selections and tactics have been a bit suspect for a while, but it's been papered over by individuals performing well. We've been very, very conservative in our approach to selection, and while that's preferable to the constant chop-and-change of previous regimes I think we've been too fixed in our thinking, and have missed clear opportunities to develop a few more players.

    Don't have particularly high hopes for the India series, given we barely play any red ball cricket between now and then. Think it would be a good idea to give Williamson a break from some of the limited overs stuff. Seems likely Blundell will stay as opener, but is that really the right move? He played brilliantly at the MCG by following a very clear game plan of leaving everything outside off, waiting for something straight or short that he could pull, but that's probably not his natural game and we might get more out of him in the middle order. Don't know who else you can pick though.

    cbf doing any series rankings for players but obvs Wagner was our best comfortably, while for Aus there's still question marks around Burns, Wade, and maybe Head, but even they had their moments and the rest all played pretty well.


  5. #4940
    International Coach stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImpatientLime View Post
    overall? yes

    in england? no chance
    Who took more wickets in the last Ashes series in England?

  6. #4941
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    there's going to be some good quotes in here for when burns, warner, wade and paine get destroyed by the indian swing bowling at lords.
    Wade won't be there by then, and Paine may well have retired as well. Burns always has a question mark over him, too.

    Very likely to be

    Warner
    Burns
    Marnus
    TPC
    Head
    KPat
    Carey
    Cummins
    Starc/ Patto
    Lyon
    Haze

    They'll win it in three days. May as well hand it over now.
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  7. #4942
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Very close. India like Lord's too btw.

    Marnus and Smith are key for Australia. India have better #5-6 (assuming they play Vihari). Bowling is a wash mostly.

    Bumrah vs Marnus-Smith will be the key to the game.

    India lost by an Innings and 158 runs in their last test there.


    Thinking about it again.

    The bowling advantage would be with Australia.

    Cummins and Hazlewood were a shitload better than Bumrah and Shami in 2019 than their 2018 tour.

    Hazlewood was just as good as Cummins and Cummins took 29 wkts @ 19.

  8. #4943
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    Southee 26 wickets @ 25.96 this season (in SL, v Eng, in Aus). I know some were pre-declaration wickets in Perth, but better numbers than I realised.

  9. #4944
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    there's going to be some good quotes in here for when burns, warner, wade and paine get destroyed by the indian swing bowling at lords.
    Paine and Wade literally both averaged more in their recent series than Pant and Vihariís last tour there.

    And India averaged 18 for their opening wicket last tour.

    Rahul - Ave 29
    Dhawan - Ave 20
    Vijay - Ave 6.5



    Cummins and Hazlewood both averaged under 20 vs Bumrah and Shami in the mid 20ís.

    Australia honestly has the batting advantage with Labuschagne/Smith vs literally Kohli on past performances, all the other batsmen from both sides have been decidedly average.

    As has been said, itís unlikely to feature Paine and Wade anyway, likely to be Carey & potentially someone like Cam Green in 18 months.

    Paine will retire after the Indian series and before the SAF tour imo. I think Green likely debutís in South Africa if heís fit and performing, the same with Carey.

    The opening slot is up in the air, it will be interesting to see how the Shield season finishes and who goes to Bangladesh.
    Last edited by sphynx; 06-01-2020 at 05:52 PM.

  10. #4945
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
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    It's pretty incredible that this is the worst performance by an NZ team in Australia that I've seen in the past 30 years. Couple factors in play

    1) Bowling 1st three times in a row (which KW was as much responsible for as anything).
    2) Playing almost entirely on low and slower pitches over the past 2 years.
    3) Certain players falling out of form or starting to show their age at the wrong time.
    4) Poor selection strategy.

    Overall though, this was an absolute embarrassment. At least in 2015 NZ competed well in the 2nd and 3rd tests. This was men against 10 boys and Wagner all the way through.
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  11. #4946
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    It's pretty incredible that this is the worst performance by an NZ team in Australia that I've seen in the past 30 years. Couple factors in play

    1) Bowling 1st three times in a row (which KW was as much responsible for as anything).
    2) Playing almost entirely on low and slower pitches over the past 2 years.
    3) Certain players falling out of form or starting to show their age at the wrong time.
    4) Poor selection strategy.

    Overall though, this was an absolute embarrassment. At least in 2015 NZ competed well in the 2nd and 3rd tests. This was men against 10 boys and Wagner all the way through.
    Yeah for all the crap you can give the 2015 series, they really weren't far from 1-1. Now that flattered New Zealand and they got smacked on the only pitch that wasn't a lottery, but really they actually played well at times. They didn't here - this was more like 2004/08, and this NZ side >> those ones. (not to mention that the Aussie side is clearly a fair bit weaker than 04 at least, and quite arguably 08)
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  12. #4947
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    It's weird to think this was probably our best chance, too. Next tour Wagner and Taylor won't be there, and it's not like Boult and Southee will increase in pace. We're going to have to find and develop some stars in the next 4 years.
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  13. #4948
    State 12th Man thundaboult's Avatar
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    Well, thank god this one is finally over. A series spanning a 3 weeks felt like 3 months. Can't wait for the Limited overs stuff.

    I do believe that plenty of good will come out of such humiliation for us. There simply has to. The conservative selection and style of play we have been displaying might finally come to a stop because of what we have shown in these last few weeks.

    What's concerning to me is how we are spiraling downwards since the ecstasy of the world cup. First that final, then that bitter t20 super over reminder against england, and now this.

    Feel like we really need to thump India at home to get some mojo back, but that seems unlikely. If I was to select, I'd start bringing in loads of fresh talent into the side for the t20's and odi's now. Injecting Blundell and Phillips seemed to have invigorated us a bit.

  14. #4949
    State 12th Man thundaboult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    It's weird to think this was probably our best chance, too. Next tour Wagner and Taylor won't be there, and it's not like Boult and Southee will increase in pace. We're going to have to find and develop some stars in the next 4 years.
    Personally I've got big hopes from the likes of finn allen, kuggs, sears, ravindra. And who knows, more talent could pop up from outta nowhere and make a spot their own.

  15. #4950
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundaboult View Post
    Personally I've got big hopes from the likes of finn allen, kuggs, sears, ravindra. And who knows, more talent could pop up from outta nowhere and make a spot their own.
    Current selection panel is VERY keen on squad stability. Even if new players may have a higher ceiling than current squad players. Ferguson is a good example, a real 140+ quick, 28 years old and 3 years after ODI debut, 70 wickets @ 20 in last 3 NZ FC seasons, but still behind Henry in the test pecking order.



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