England conquering in Australia and India,What was More impressive series win?

[vcs]

No he was worse. Ashwin overseas is toothless for the most part but doesn't try to bowl 3 carrom balls an over like he did back in 2012.

Weirdly, he didn't have much success over there when he was more of a proper offspinner on his last couple of tours, but after his transformation into a guy who tries to bowl five different variations in an over, he put in an important performance in Adelaide last year. Wouldn't have won without that.

 

[Lancashire Nick]

I may be showing my age here, but when I read the title of this thread, my first instinct was to evaluate the England win under David Gower in 1984/85. Then to wonder whether the poster meant Tony Greig's winning team in 1976/77.

It was only when reading other peoples answers, I realised we were talking about Cook's team of 2012.

The joy of old age, huh.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Weirdly, he didn't have much success over there when he was more of a proper offspinner on his last couple of tours, but after his transformation into a guy who tries to bowl five different variations in an over, he put in an important performance in Adelaide last year. Wouldn't have won without that.

He kept it mostly very simple at Adelaide.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Based on circumstances at the respective times the win in India was the greater achievement. At the moment we're light years from being competitive in Australia. I wouldn't put much money on a series win in India either, but I'd be less surprised by it.

 

[Cabinet96]

It's also worth directly comparing the performances of some of the key players in both series too. What Cook and, to a lesser extent, Anderson did to Aus in 10/11 is probably more famous amongst your average English supporter and fair enough too because it's the Ashes and all, but from a purely cricketing POV what both did in India in 2012 is probably much more impressive. Anderson especially bowled about as well as it's reasonable to expect a fast bowler to bowl in those conditions.

I think most hardcore cricket fans know Cook's India tour was a bigger achievement than his plundering in Australia. It's one thing to grind a mediocre seam attack (at the time) into the ground bowlers have done half the work already (Brisbane aside) and you have a gun middle and lower order to back you up, it's another to completely conquer the Indian spinners when at the start of the tour you're staring down the barrel of a potential whitewash. One of the things that was really notable about that India tour is that England's collective got better with each game. Pietersen, Swann and Panesar came to the party in Mumbai, Anderson, Finn and Trott then did the job in Kolkata, and then Bell and Root got runs in Nagpur. But in that first test Cook and Prior were the only players who performed to their capabilities. Basically I think England would've still had a decent chance to win in Aus without Cook (though it's hard to say how they'd have performed in Melbourne and Sydney if they'd lost two of the first three tests), I don't think they'd have stood a prayer in India.

 

[Howe_zat]

I think that 2010-11 series is my favourite sporting event of all time and nothing is ever going to top it.

If it had never happened I'd probably have about 28,000 fewer posts

Edit: About 50k fewer if you count Cricsim

 

[GIMH]

I think most hardcore cricket fans know Cook's India tour was a bigger achievement than his plundering in Australia. It's one thing to grind a mediocre seam attack (at the time) into the ground bowlers have done half the work already (Brisbane aside) and you have a gun middle and lower order to back you up, it's another to completely conquer the Indian spinners when at the start of the tour you're staring down the barrel of a potential whitewash. One of the things that was really notable about that India tour is that England's collective got better with each game. Pietersen, Swann and Panesar came to the party in Mumbai, Anderson, Finn and Trott then did the job in Kolkata, and then Bell and Root got runs in Nagpur. But in that first test Cook and Prior were the only players who performed to their capabilities. Basically I think England would've still had a decent chance to win in Aus without Cook (though it's hard to say how they'd have performed in Melbourne and Sydney if they'd lost two of the first three tests), I don't think they'd have stood a prayer in India.

Largely good points but...

Cook was staring down the barrel going into 10/11. People legit didn't want him on the tour.

We lose heavily at Brisbane without him, as you acknowledge. But Adelaide also goes differently without him for me. And that's before you factor in recent England in Australia history of what happens when we go one down.

I personally don't think we do win there without him in 10-11. A lot afterwards stemmed from that springboard so its hard to view independently

Definitely the win in India was a better cricketing achievement but the Ashes is the pinnacle of English cricket (of all cricket) and 10/11 is therefore hard to ever top

 

[Cabinet96]

I agree there's a lot of uncertainty about later in the series if he doesn't perform at Brisbane and Adelaide. Bell is an interesting one for me. He was in such good form from first innings to last in that series but was barely needed for a good chunk of it. He might have ended up having a historic series if he was batting up the order and not behind the runs of the top four. Or he might have failed under the extra pressure. Impossible to say.

I actually hadn't really thought about Cook's personal situation going into 10/11. That does add to the impressiveness of the achievement somewhat.

 

[Adders]

It's also worth directly comparing the performances of some of the key players in both series too. What Cook and, to a lesser extent, Anderson did to Aus in 10/11 is probably more famous amongst your average English supporter and fair enough too because it's the Ashes and all, but from a purely cricketing POV what both did in India in 2012 is probably much more impressive. Anderson especially bowled about as well as it's reasonable to expect a fast bowler to bowl in those conditions.

Anderson was great in Aus in 10/11 and exceptional in India in 2012..........yet people will still look at his averages for both these series (26 and 30 respectively) and use it in their argument that he can't perform away from home.

 

[morgieb]

Both are extremely impressive, needless to say.

Probably say Australia as they basically smashed us there, India kept it a bit tighter. On the other hand, if I were English I would've been feeling pretty confident after the First Test as realistically it was one great spell and one great partnership that saw Australia get ahead, and 1/517 is the definition of demoralising. While England did fight back in the second innings of the First Test in 2012, they still got smashed, and they conceded 300 on a pitch that was doing a lot in the Second Test. Surely KP's greatest knock of all-time, that one?

 

[marc71178]

I think we can all agree that they were the two finest cricketing achievements of the century to date

World Cup 2019 runs them close IMO.

 

[OverratedSanity]

World Cup 2019 runs them close IMO.

The 2019 Ashes up there too in that case.

 

[GIMH]

Hehehehehehehehehehehehe BANTER

 

[marc71178]

The 2019 Ashes up there too in that case.

Nah, the weather saving Australia at Lords means that series will always have an asterix against the drawn series result.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The more I read the thread (everyone going on about how bad Australia and India were in those series) the more I think that neither were really an impressive achievement.

2005 Ashes was a more impressive achievement (even if it was enabled by ball tampering, biased umpiring, injuries and luck)

 

[Daemon]

The more I read the thread (everyone going on about how bad Australia and India were in those series) the more I think that neither were really an impressive achievement.

2005 Ashes was a more impressive achievement (even if it was enabled by ball tampering, biased umpiring, injuries and luck)

Yes it is sad that victories against teams that were led by Peter Siddle and past it Indian greats as well as drawn world cups are held in such high regard. Good achievements but it's a bit like if India were to claim that series win against the Smith and Warner-less Australia was our greatest ever triumph.