England's batting in the 90s

[Tom Flint]

How did England become so terrible in this decade especially the batting. How often did Atherton Stewart Thorpe ramps and hick play in the same team? I think if the selectors had stuck with ramps and hick instead of bringing them in and out of the team then we could have had a very good batting line up

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Well we had a good opening pair and split them up because Hick and Ramps were not good enough and Stewart had to keep so we could play an extra bat. Hick was a flop given his talent but Ramps was a disaster and should have been dumped ages before.

 

[Red]

Not letting Stewart just be an opener without the keeping gloves was a huge mis-selection. They always seemed to be throwing players all over the shop trying to get things right, but they never did. Post Gooch/Gatting/Gower/Smith/Lamb they should have gone with, and stuck with:

Stewart
Atherton
Butcher
Hussein
Thorpe
Hick
Russell +
Gough
Fraser
Caddick
Tufnell

 

[mr_mister]

It's funny how much Ramps clutched it against Australia

 

[TheJediBrah]

I know it's not really the batting but my favourite thing about England in the 90s was the sheer number of "all-rounders" that were swept through the side, mostly in ODIs. They must have given nearly every all-rounder in County cricket a run at some point.

 

[mr_mister]

The Hollioakes
Ealham
Alleyne
Lewis
De Freitas
Croft
Cork
Tudor

All had some loose all round credentials

 

[morgieb]

The Hollioakes
Ealham
Alleyne
Lewis
De Freitas
Croft
Cork
Tudor

All had some loose all round credentials

And they all either sucked or weren't any better than #8's at Test level.

 

[mr_mister]

Also fwiw Steve Waugh predicted in his book that if Athers had not declared on Hick on 98* he'd have kicked on to a solid career. Thought an ashes century would have been a huge confident boost for him

 

[TheJediBrah]

The Hollioakes
Ealham
Alleyne
Lewis
De Freitas
Croft
Cork
Tudor

All had some loose all round credentials

include early-2000s and there's a few more: Irani, Matthew Fleming, Craig White (he was a decent player though), Rikki Clarke, Mascarenhas, Dalrymple, Jeremy Snape, Ian Blackwell, Gareth Batty and of course Michael Yardy

And they all either sucked or weren't any better than #8's at Test level.

A big reason for how little I rate county cricket (perhaps unfairly) is based on these guys from the 90s/early-00s. They were all average no.8 or 9s but then back in county cricket they'd bat top 6 or open in the Limited-overs and make 100s lol.

 

[mr_mister]

Yeah Croft and Cork having several FC tons each looks funny


But the Hollioakes were genuine batsmen.. I think

 

[morgieb]

Yeah Croft and Cork having several FC tons each looks funny


But the Hollioakes were genuine batsmen.. I think

Yeah Adam at least was a better batsman than bowler. Think everyone else were better bowlers than batsmen though.

Regarding Croft and Cork having multiple FC tons - that has a lot to do with the sheer length of their county careers than anything else - both only averaged around 25 at FC level which is not good enough to be a middle-order option anywhere in the world. In List A matches I think they were mostly pinch-hitters.

 

[vcs]

Also fwiw Steve Waugh predicted in his book that if Athers had not declared on Hick on 98* he'd have kicked on to a solid career. Thought an ashes century would have been a huge confident boost for him

Hick did have a decent career, even with his well-documented troubles against the short ball. Excellent player of spin, did well when England toured India in '93.

 

[mr_mister]

I'd say an average of 31 from 65 tests is mediocre. Especially considering he was meant to be a once in a decade talent when he debuted. As is often said here after his disaster debut series and first dozen or so tests he suddenly had 3 really productive years as one of the best bats in the world, but for his last 4-5 years and 25 tests or so he was pretty useless

It seems England didn't even know what they wanted from him by the end. Played plenty of matches as the star bat at number 3 but by the '98/99 ashes was batting at 7 as a specialist bat

 

[OverratedSanity]

Stewart was classy. 39 average probably a disservice to his ability.

 

[Bijed]

The Hollioakes
Ealham
Alleyne
Lewis
De Freitas
Croft
Cork
Tudor

All had some loose all round credentials

The general point re. the 'all-rounders' is valid, but I always reckon Cork's unlucky to get lumped given that his bowling record (131 wickets @ 29.81) is perfectly decent

Stewart was classy. 39 average probably a disservice to his ability.

Averaged 46 as a specialist bat in tests IIRC, keeping affected his output loads (although it wasn't just the workload, but because he'd bat lower he'd face more spin which wasn't a strength of his)

 

[marc71178]

Stewart was classy. 39 average probably a disservice to his ability.

He was made into a keeper batsman rather than a world class opener.

If only we'd had a world class keeper who was decent enough with the bat by the standards of the day available. Oh wait...

 

[SeamUp]

Stewart was classy. 39 average probably a disservice to his ability.

He was an awesome attacking batsmsan to watch when he came off.

He was made into a keeper batsman rather than a world class opener.

If only we'd had a world class keeper who was decent enough with the bat by the standards of the day available. Oh wait...

Excuse my ignorance, who was the keeper ?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Foster?

Read?

those guys maybe a bit later

edit: Rhodes or Russell?

 

[SeamUp]

Foster?

Read?

those guys maybe a bit later

edit: Rhodes or Russell?

I think he means Russell. Not sure when abouts he was on a decline though and would the output have been enough even if it was the 90s wicket-keeper.

 

[mr_mister]

Definitely referring to Russell