Cricket Betting Site Betway

View Poll Results: How good was Steyn as a pace bowler?

Voters
43. You may not vote on this poll
  • Best of all time

    1 2.33%
  • ATG XI

    5 11.63%
  • Top 5 pacers of all time

    22 51.16%
  • Top 10 pacers of all time

    14 32.56%
  • Worse than top 10

    1 2.33%
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 192
Like Tree47Likes

Thread: Where does Dale Steyn stack up historically

  1. #61
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    India
    Posts
    129
    Unpopular Opinion : I rate Donald higher than Ambrose in Tests. I always felt Donald was better wicket taking bowler than Ambrose.

  2. #62
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    India
    Posts
    129
    One reason I wouldn’t rate McGrath ahead of Steyn was his record in Asia. The dead pitches of the subcontinent are the greatest challenge to any fast bowler. Statistically, there wasn’t much difference between them. As someone who watched their entire career, Steyn always felt as someone who could single handedly win match even in those dead pitches while McGrath didn’t feel that way.

    Steyn has 5 five wicket hauls in 22 Tests in Asian pitches while McGrath has 1 five wicket haul in 19 Test matches in Asian pitches.
    Last edited by Logan; 06-08-2019 at 11:26 PM.

  3. #63
    International Coach ankitj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    India
    Posts
    11,399
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    I don't think anyone's using it as a real measure though. It's just an interesting stat that can tell a story about a player, their team and the relation between them. No one's claiming that it's a decisive measure of how good a player is.
    Wrong stats are not interesting.
    RIP Phil Hughes. Forever 63*

  4. #64
    International 12th Man
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    India
    Posts
    1,625
    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    Unpopular Opinion : I rate Donald higher than Ambrose in Tests. I always felt Donald was better wicket taking bowler than Ambrose.
    I personally rate Ambrose higher(the reason being he had a more rounded record in most places), but would not have a problem with anyone rating Donald this high. After all we are talking about 2 of the greatest bowlers of all time. Donald missing 3-4 good years in the early part of his career is a tragedy though, and who knows, many possibly would have rated him as high as Marshall if he had played those years.


  5. #65
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    One reason I wouldn’t rate McGrath ahead of Steyn was his record in Asia. The dead pitches of the subcontinent are the greatest challenge to any fast bowler. Statistically, there wasn’t much difference between them. As someone who watched their entire career, Steyn always felt as someone who could single handedly win match even in those dead pitches while McGrath didn’t feel that way.

    Steyn has 5 five wicket hauls in 22 Tests in Asian pitches while McGrath has 1 five wicket haul in 19 Test matches in Asian pitches.
    McGrath averages 23 in Asia, Steyn averages 24.

    And among those McGrath played all but 3 games against either India or Pakistan (never played Bangladesh)
    Steyn played 4 matches against Bangladesh and a lot more against Sri Lanka (who tbf weren't that bad most of the time)

    But you go and pick "number of 5 wicket hauls" as if it's somehow a decisive factor. I don't want to invalidate your feelings but objectively a pretty ordinary post tbh

  6. #66
    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Elton Chicken Burrah
    Posts
    32,814
    His point was that Steyn was more likely to completely run through a lineup in those conditions while Mcgrath was probably a bit more consistently threatening which is fair enough. Steyn produced 3-4 spells on the subcontinent the likes of which I've never seen from an overseas pacer.
    Quote Originally Posted by TNT View Post
    You need to clap a cows c**t over your head and get a woolly bull to f**k some sense into you.

  7. #67
    Request Your Custom Title Now!
    Suicide Bob Champion!
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Not really needed on CW
    Posts
    30,738
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    McGrath averages 23 in Asia, Steyn averages 24.

    And among those McGrath played all but 3 games against either India or Pakistan (never played Bangladesh)
    Steyn played 4 matches against Bangladesh and a lot more against Sri Lanka (who tbf weren't that bad most of the time)

    But you go and pick "number of 5 wicket hauls" as if it's somehow a decisive factor. I don't want to invalidate your feelings but objectively a pretty ordinary post tbh
    McGrath averaged 36 against SL in SL, so if he had played more his average would've been worse. Likewise for Bangladesh imo. Habibul would've sent him home crying.

  8. #68
    School Boy/Girl Captain
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    India
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    McGrath averages 23 in Asia, Steyn averages 24.

    And among those McGrath played all but 3 games against either India or Pakistan (never played Bangladesh)
    Steyn played 4 matches against Bangladesh and a lot more against Sri Lanka (who tbf weren't that bad most of the time)

    But you go and pick "number of 5 wicket hauls" as if it's somehow a decisive factor
    1. I did mention both Steyn and McGrath are somewhat statistically similar in Asian pitches.

    McGrath averages 23 while Steyn averages 24.

    Steyn’s SR is 42 while McGrath’s SR is 55.

    What I did say was Steyn was more dangerous because he could produce spells that could make a HUGE difference.

    2. You are absolutely wrong to tell that Steyn got any of his five wicket hauls against Bangladesh.

    For your information:
    McGrath:
    1. Zero Five Wicket Haul n 8 Tests in India
    2. Zero Five Wicket Haul in 4 Tests in SL
    3. One Five Wicket Haul in 5 Tests in Pak

    Steyn
    1. Two Five Wicket Haul in 6 Tests in India
    2. One Five Wicket Haul in 2 Tests in Pak
    3. Two Wicket Haul in in 6 Tests in SL


    3. Yes, Five Wickets Haul are important. It is one of the indicators that a bowler can win a match single handedly.

    For example : Steyn’s spell of 5-23 in Ahmedabad or Marshall’s spell of 8-60 in Kanpur or Steyn’s spell of 7-51 in Nagpur are great examples of fast bowling in India.
    Last edited by Logan; 07-08-2019 at 12:11 AM.

  9. #69
    International Debutant Slifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,835
    Tbh this whole Asia is toughest to be a fast bowler stuff is nonsense imo. The toughest place to succeed as a fast bowler is Australia (obviously for non Australian bowlers). India's wickets for example take better to spin but Indians are unchallenged in their ability to play spin. India can't be both tough for spinners and fast bowlers, that is not logical.
    Australia is the same for fast bowlers as india imo. And virtually most good to great fast bowlers of recent times have struggled in Australia vs their performance in the sub continent. Ex: Steyn, Donald, Pollock, Akram, Imran, Walsh. Then there are the bowlers who struggled in both like Waqar, Anderson, Shoaib etc..

  10. #70
    vcs
    vcs is offline
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend vcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    India
    Posts
    23,052
    Tim Southee has more 5-ers in Asia than McGrath trollololol (just to annoy TJB).
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Chix love a man with a checkered posting history.

  11. #71
    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Elton Chicken Burrah
    Posts
    32,814
    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    Tbh this whole Asia is toughest to be a fast bowler stuff is nonsense imo. The toughest place to succeed as a fast bowler is Australia (obviously for non Australian bowlers). India's wickets for example take better to spin but Indians are unchallenged in their ability to play spin. India can't be both tough for spinners and fast bowlers, that is not logical.
    Australia is the same for fast bowlers as india imo. And virtually most good to great fast bowlers of recent times have struggled in Australia vs their performance in the sub continent. Ex: Steyn, Donald, Pollock, Akram, Imran, Walsh. Then there are the bowlers who struggled in both like Waqar, Anderson, Shoaib etc..
    The subcontinent is generally tougher to get wickets on as a pacer since the wickets are slower and there's less lateral movement on offer. This isn't very complicated.

  12. #72
    vcs
    vcs is offline
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend vcs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    India
    Posts
    23,052
    If your batsmen can put your team in a good position, it can also be a better place to bowl on the 4th/5th day compared to, let's say, an NZ or a flat Australian pitch though (uneven bounce and deterioration). Depends.

  13. #73
    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Elton Chicken Burrah
    Posts
    32,814
    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    If your batsmen can put your team in a good position, it can also be a better place to bowl on the 4th/5th day compared to, let's say, an NZ or a flat Australian pitch though (uneven bounce and deterioration). Depends.
    That's why I said "generally". Sure there are situations where it can be good for pacers but overall to pretend it isn't a tougher place to bowl in for a quick would be daft. Although in recent years, Australian pitches have been just as if not more challenging.
    Last edited by OverratedSanity; 07-08-2019 at 12:25 AM.

  14. #74
    International Debutant GoodAreasShane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Flight 643
    Posts
    2,939
    Not saying it has always been the case, but Australia isn't a pleasant place to come as a visiting fast bowler of recent times. The pitches are generally fairly docile and our batsman for the most part have been raised on good pace bowling, hence usually play it pretty well

    Not so much last summer though, weakest Australian batting lineup in my lifetime.
    Allegedly banned

    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    Usman probably figured he could use the zing bails to deflect the ball over the fence
    Quote Originally Posted by Magrat Garlick View Post
    glad to not have found out the real name of GoodAreasShane, as it allows me to keep imagining that at club cricket his mates shout "good areas, GoodAreasShane"

  15. #75
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,868
    Quote Originally Posted by Logan View Post
    1. I did mention both Steyn and McGrath are somewhat statistically similar in Asian pitches.

    McGrath averages 23 while Steyn averages 24.

    Steyn’s SR is 42 while McGrath’s SR is 55.

    What I did say was Steyn was more dangerous because he could produce spells that could make a HUGE difference.

    2. You are absolutely wrong to tell that Steyn got any of his five wicket hauls against Bangladesh.

    For your information:
    McGrath:
    1. Zero Five Wicket Haul n 8 Tests in India
    2. Zero Five Wicket Haul in 4 Tests in SL
    3. One Five Wicket Haul in 5 Tests in Pak

    Steyn
    1. Two Five Wicket Haul in 6 Tests in India
    2. One Five Wicket Haul in 2 Tests in Pak
    3. Two Wicket Haul in in 6 Tests in SL


    3. Yes, Five Wickets Haul are important. It is one of the indicators that a bowler can win a match single handedly.

    For example : Steyn’s spell of 5-23 in Ahmedabad or Marshall’s spell of 8-60 in Kanpur or Steyn’s spell of 7-51 in Nagpur are great examples of fast bowling in India.
    I never said Steyn got any of his 5-wicket hauls against Bangladesh. And why are you still talking about 5 wicket hauls? It's a somewhat interesting stat but it doesn't really actually mean anything, objectively. If 2 players have similar stats but one has much more 5-wicket hauls is vastly more likely just an indication of the strength and effectiveness of the rest of the attack. Claiming that it means a bowler is more likely to win a match for his team is very short-sighted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slifer View Post
    Tbh this whole Asia is toughest to be a fast bowler stuff is nonsense imo.
    And this too.

    @ Logan, as I said I'm not trying to discredit your feelings or opinions, which of course are valid. Everyone has a right to them. Just pointing out (maybe unnecessarily, I'll admit) that: 1) no. of 5-wicket hauls and, 2) bowling in Asia alone, are not really even close to definitive stats to judge a bowler on, objectively speaking.
    Last edited by TheJediBrah; 07-08-2019 at 12:45 AM.

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Dale Steyn
    By Red Hill in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 286
    Last Post: 08-01-2019, 01:28 AM
  2. Dale Steyn in Blended
    By Agent Nationaux in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 21-07-2014, 01:38 AM
  3. Is Dale Steyn finished?
    By Furball in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 31-12-2013, 11:46 PM
  4. All hail Dale Steyn
    By Craig in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 27-01-2009, 07:01 AM
  5. Dale Steyn - Why?
    By Manee in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 30-06-2008, 06:51 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •