View Poll Results: Is Sachin to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi?

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Thread: Sachin is to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi?

  1. #1
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    Sachin is to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi?

    Today we at Bing launched a new experience for comparing stats of cricketers. E.g. Sachin vs Kohli stats comparison. While I was comparing popular players like Sachin, Kohli, Viv Richards, ABD, Ponting, etc., I found out that Kohli's ODI numbers are indeed overwhelming, but extremely poor compared to Sachin when it comes to playing on the grand stage - knockout matches in important tournaments (finals, semifinals, etc.). For example:

    last.png

    In world cups, both have comparable stats, But Sachin had had many more impactful knocks - 54 against Pakistan in 1992, 70 against West Indies in 1996, 137 and 65 against Lanka in 1996, 98 against Pakistan, 97 against Sri Lanka, 50 against England in 2003, 120 against England, 111 vs South Africa, 54 vs Australia in quarter final, 85 vs Pakistan in semifinal. He was the highest scorer in all cases, often setting the tone of the innings. Kohli has but one such innings - 107 against Pakistan in 2015 WC, and even there two other batsmen scored in 70s.

    In 3 WC semifinals, Sachin scored 65, 83 and 85. Kohli scored 9, 1 and 1.

    In tests, the stats do look comparable, but at this stage in life, which was in 2002, Sachin averaged close to 59, his average took a hit post 2010, Kohli now averages 53.

    Is it fair to say that Tendulkar is to Kohli what Maradona is to Messi? One has killer numbers, but fails to deliver on the grand stage like World Cup or knockout matches (although Messi does play well in Champions League knockout matches) but plays like a juggernaut in league matches or unimportant tournaments, while the other has slightly lesser numbers but delivers when it matters the most - in World Cups?
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    Last edited by SachinFan; 12-07-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trundler View Post
    Who cares, they're all great. Just watch em and have fun.
    Rude. This is a good post worth a proper response

    Hi Sachinfan. Sorry I don't watch enough football to draw the comparison, though if you see the other threads here, there are plenty of people who don't quite agree with the assertion that Sachin always delivered on the grand stage. He did, however, do a lot more than Kohli has so far.

    MSD too tbh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Rude. This is a good post worth a proper response

    Hi Sachinfan. Sorry I don't watch enough football to draw the comparison, though if you see the other threads here, there are plenty of people who don't quite agree with the assertion that Sachin always delivered on the grand stage. He did, however, do a lot more than Kohli has so far.

    MSD too tbh.
    Fair.

    I have a tangentially related query. Does the World Cup bridge the gap between Root and Kohli somewhat? I'd say so since they've both been very good for a long enough time and JAMODIs rightly count for little. Both scored 258 runs at identical strike rates in CT17. Great records at 3.
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    Thanks Zorax. Yes, I have read some of those posts. In fact, it is a pretty common myth that Sachin never played well in important matches (third most annoying myth, most annoying myth is that he played only for himself, second most annoying myth is that he never contributed to wins for India).

    However, as the other posts claim, if he is indeed not that good in knockout matches, there must be someone greater than him? Who? Nobody ever delivers every time, so the question becomes, who delivers most frequently. If you consider all the potential candidates, none of them seems to match up with Tendulkar either on the big stage, or in knockouts:

    tendulkar vs ponting
    tendulkar vs lara
    tendulkar vs kallis
    tendulkar vs sangakkara
    tendulkar vs hayden
    tendulkar vs gilchrist
    tendulkar vs inzamam
    tendulkar vs ganguly
    tendulkar vs haynes
    tendulkar vs jayasuriya
    tendulkar vs sehwag
    tendulkar vs anwar
    tendulkar vs dravid

    None of them really matches up with Sachin, remotely. Hayden and Ganguly match to some extent, Dravid has a better World Cup record, but in to less matches to consider it too seriously, but Sachin trumps him totally in knockout matches.

    The only player who has the better record in both cases, is Viv Richards, and that is pretty much undisputed:

    tendulkar vs viv richards
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    Root has yet to be the juggernaut in ODIs as Kohli has been. However, he did fairly well in the semifinal, and if he does well in the final as well, I am prepared to accept that he is as good as Kohli. Scoring important match winning runs in finals and semifinals is of much higher importance than scoring shitloads of runs in unimportant bilateral series and then scoring 1, 1 and 9 in 3 World Cup semifinals and 1 in Champions Trophy final as well.
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    The idea that Kohli is to cricket what Messi is to football, or that Kohli is somehow the cricketing equivalent of Messi, is divorced from reality.

  8. #8
    International Coach trundler's Avatar
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    I'm saying it's closer than the raw stats suggest.

    You're right about Tendulkar though. I remember that innings Vs Pakistan in the 11 semi. Was very very crucial. Can you dig up his CT record? You could argue that a Titan Cup semi shouldn't counted alongside WC knockouts though. Still, good myth busting.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    The idea that Kohli is to cricket what Messi is to football, or that Kohli is somehow the cricketing equivalent of Messi, is divorced from reality.
    Tbf I don't think that's what he's trying to say, he's just drawing a parallel between how the two pairs compare to each other within the same sport


    The comparison tool is actually pretty nifty. The selection of filters is a bit limited right now but it's got the potential to be a really handy little app, especially now cricinfo have taken the stats bit off the bottom of cricinfo profiles
    Last edited by Bijed; 12-07-2019 at 01:24 PM.
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    Tendulkar's CT record is not that good. Although his highest score in a knockout match - 141, was scored in CT in 1998 against Australia. I personally don't consider the innings as exemplary (other than helping India win comfortably), since Mcgrath, Warne were absent. Mcgrath was absent in Sharjah as well, but at least Warne was there.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bijed View Post
    Tbf I don't think that's what he's trying to say, he's just drawing a parallel between how the two pairs compare to each other within the same sport


    The comparison tool is actually pretty nifty. The selection of filters is a bit limited right now but it's got the potential to be a really handy little app, especially now cricinfo have taken the stats bit off the bottom of cricinfo profiles
    Yes, precisely. I did not compare Kohli to Messi, just that Kohli is to cricket what Messi is to football - champion in non-WC matches, but on the grandest stage, both kind of falter. Kohli has one more WC to make amends though. But still, Sachin had done it in 3 World Cups - 1996, 2003 and 2011. India reached the 96 WC semifinal virtually on his shoulders. He scored more in that World Cup than the next 4 batsmen combined! Now that is dominance!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by trundler View Post
    I'm saying it's closer than the raw stats suggest.

    You're right about Tendulkar though. I remember that innings Vs Pakistan in the 11 semi. Was very very crucial. Can you dig up his CT record? You could argue that a Titan Cup semi shouldn't counted alongside WC knockouts though. Still, good myth busting.
    There are no semis in 3 team tournaments like Titan Cup. He scored some 60 odd runs in the final of Titan Cup, and it is probably right to calculate it as a knockout match.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    The idea that Kohli is to cricket what Messi is to football, or that Kohli is somehow the cricketing equivalent of Messi, is divorced from reality.
    You are right. I'd say Kohli is cricket's equivalent of Ronaldo, even on a personality comparison. Steve Smith is probably Messi even though he is probably yet to bring it at ODI level, the blandness in personality is also common in both.

  14. #14
    International Coach trundler's Avatar
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    Smith is just so robotic. Watching a coaching video by him almost makes you feel bad for him. Looks like he's been threatened with no net sessions until he does one. And then there's the fidgeting between balls and the interviews.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by trundler View Post
    Smith is just so robotic. Watching a coaching video by him almost makes you feel bad for him. Looks like he's been threatened with no net sessions until he does one. And then there's the fidgeting between balls and the interviews.
    Agreed, his batting very ugly. Shuffling across the stumps. I would have loved to watch him play against Murali and Warne on rank turner pitches, like Tendulkar and Lara did in their heydays. This ugly technique works against mediocre spinners of today, it wouldn't have worked against Warne or Murali.

    On that note, I find Dhawan's batting ugly as well.

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