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Thread: *** Official *** South African Domestic Season 2019/20

  1. #31
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    Not sure if I'm being anecdotal but I wonder if he won't go the Parnell route (hopefully performing much better though) and focus more on his bowling despite doing both at u19 level. I think if he's a genuine test-quality spinner it might be more important to focus on that, even if he's a batting AR for now.
    Disagree with this, we have other spinner potentials, few batting all-rounder options. Top quality batting all-rounders are rare, so if he can become that along with Mulder it would be a boon to the future SA team.
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  2. #32
    International Debutant MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Disagree with this, we have other spinner potentials, few batting all-rounder options. Top quality batting all-rounders are rare, so if he can become that along with Mulder it would be a boon to the future SA team.
    What other spinner potentials do we really have for Test cricket in particular?

    A batting AR for SA would likely bat at 6 - be it Mulder or Parsons - of course it's possible they both make it as batsmen alone. But how likely is that really?

    Could certainly take a slight batting hit for a genuine bating AR at 6, but not at 5 too.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    What other spinner potentials do we really have for Test cricket in particular?

    A batting AR for SA would likely bat at 6 - be it Mulder or Parsons - of course it's possible they both make it as batsmen alone. But how likely is that really?

    Could certainly take a slight batting hit for a genuine bating AR at 6, but not at 5 too.
    Bjorn Fortuin in particular.... but it not like Maharaj is old or anything? All I`m saying is the likelihood of us getting a batting all-rounder is rare compared to a quality spinner. I think it is better to nurture a potential batting all-rounder than a potential spinner.

  4. #34
    International Debutant MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Bjorn Fortuin in particular.... but it not like Maharaj is old or anything? All I`m saying is the likelihood of us getting a batting all-rounder is rare compared to a quality spinner. I think it is better to nurture a potential batting all-rounder than a potential spinner.
    Maharaj may not be old, but Parsons is 11 years younger than him. So it's hardly like their careers will overlap much.

    Also, I disagree completely when it comes to a batting all-rounder vs spinner in terms of which is easier for SA. Guys like McMillan, Klusener, Adrian Kuiper - and of course Kallis. Beyond that, the value of a top-class spinner will be significantly higher than a batting AR imo - talking Tests here obviously.


  5. #35
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrPrez View Post
    Also, I disagree completely when it comes to a batting all-rounder vs spinner in terms of which is easier for SA. Guys like McMillan, Klusener, Adrian Kuiper - and of course Kallis. Beyond that, the value of a top-class spinner will be significantly higher than a batting AR imo - talking Tests here obviously.
    Guys like Kallis and MacMillan are rare... I`m talking about guys who can avg 40+ and bowl. Not many do that, just avg 40+ can be difficult enough in Test cricket. We consistently have spin bowlers coming through now. Little or no batting all-rounder come through, this is not just true of SA it is world wide.
    Last edited by StephenZA; 24-06-2019 at 07:18 AM.

  6. #36
    International Debutant MrPrez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Guys like Kallis and MacMillan are rare... I`m talking about guys who can avg 40+ and bowl. Not many do that, just avg 40+ can be difficult enough in Test cricket. We consistently have spin bowlers coming through now. Little or no batting all-rounder come through, this is not just true of SA it is world wide.
    I just don't think it's that important to have anyone in Test cricket who does that. It's a luxury, whereas a good spinner is a necessity.

    Besides, I'd certainly argue against us consistently having spinners coming through - decent ones that is. Maharaj is solid but I see Fortuin as more of a limited-overs prospect.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Everything that made us successful is falling apart for me. Coaching at school level - are the right people getting the jobs or do we just not have enough of them full stop. So our SA U19 side isn't as successful since Jennings. Is that down to the talent or the coaching at junior level up ?

    Interesting chatter amongst former Proteas on twitter. Rightly seething and yes some of them might have not won the world cup but they certainly didn't perform like the current set up has performed for quite some time now.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Everything that made us successful is falling apart for me. Coaching at school level - are the right people getting the jobs or do we just not have enough of them full stop. So our SA U19 side isn't as successful since Jennings. Is that down to the talent or the coaching at junior level up ?

    Interesting chatter amongst former Proteas on twitter. Rightly seething and yes some of them might have not won the world cup but they certainly didn't perform like the current set up has performed for quite some time now.
    I think there is a coaching and administrative problem at lower levels. I think the talent is there. I have said before, I think we do not have enough quality coaches. Practically, if you are picking some players for development purposes who have talent but have not been coached properly because they do not come from one of the dozen schools that generally provide the talent pool then they going to be behind the curve. From everything I've read and heard it is easier to get the bowling right compared to batting when they are 18+. And that is clearly seen in the distribution of players of colour, where the black batsmen struggle but the black bowlers are still able to be developed. So this is a failure of CSA not recognising these potential problems and dealing with them earlier, whether they can correct or are correcting we will have to see. SA will still be a force we have the talent, I think there is enough skill at coaching and development near the top level to help counteract these problems but it is something to be sorted.

    Will politics get involved again, who knows? But let us not fool ourselves this is not unique to cricket... its not even unique to sports problems across SA. It is a problem across SA, in all levels of business and society that is not going to go away any time soon.

  10. #40
    State Vice-Captain Heboric's Avatar
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    Oh dear

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...th-africa-2019

    It feels worse when it is at home.

    Who is the coach ?
    Last edited by Heboric; 27-06-2019 at 09:17 AM.

  11. #41
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heboric View Post
    Who is the coach ?
    Lawrence Mahatlane been coach for a few years now and his tenure does no look good.

    3 losses in a row now? Looks like the batting got better, or somebody at least scored big.

  12. #42
    State Vice-Captain Heboric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Lawrence Mahatlane been coach for a few years now and his tenure does no look good.

    3 losses in a row now? Looks like the batting got better, or somebody at least scored big.
    Yeah someone scored a 100 at least

  13. #43
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    What does everyone think about the change from Franchise to provisional teams again?

    A good move i feel. I'm sure the SA public would idenify with Border, Gauteng etc then the franchises

  14. #44
    State Vice-Captain Dendarii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    Lawrence Mahatlane been coach for a few years now and his tenure does no look good.
    The concern is that it's been consistently poor performances under Mahatlane. You're always going to have good and bad years with the U19 team as players don't develop at the same rate and there's no guarantee that you're going to have sufficient quality amongst the players of the same age year after year, but has Mahatlane had any sort of success with the U19 team? And if not is the problem with him or with the system that's feeding players into the U19 setup? (or perhaps it's both)

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordscc View Post
    What does everyone think about the change from Franchise to provisional teams again?

    A good move i feel. I'm sure the SA public would idenify with Border, Gauteng etc then the franchises
    I don't think identifying with a team is too much of a problem as most of the major cities are home to a franchise. It's really just East London (i.e. Border) that's missing a team, although you could probably also make a case for the return of Boland and Griqualand West given the history of cricket in those regions.
    lordscc likes this.

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