Daemon
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He wasn’t asking you, it was more rhetorical than anything. Behave yourself. Mods please send him packing for another week.
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Virat Kohli, the greatest ODI bat ever?
- Thread starter smash84
- Start date
ankitj
Hall of Fame Member
I am glad I am not the only one who flips out at the very mention of average in wins.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
One does not need stats to back up one's feelings.
Honestly the statistical difference between ABDV and Kohli is not that huge, particularly while their careers overlapped. But ABDV's extra aggression made him a more intimidating batsman. A bit like how Lara was more fearsome than Tendulkar in tests, despite the fact that Tendulkar statistically had a better career.
When Australia were an ATG side, ABDV felt like he could run away with the game against us at any time (and if not for a piece of fielding brilliance by Watson, I feel like he would have in this game: Full Scorecard of Australia vs South Africa, World Cup, 22nd Match, Group A - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com which was an important moment in that world cup campaign. Now that Australia is rubbish, we've won a surprising amount against India in ODIs despite Kohli plundering runs for fun.
And as I've said many times, I don't trust batting stats since the last world cup. The introduction of the second new ball in ODIs has almost completely removed bowlers from the game against top shelf batsmen.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
And actually, my intuition is pretty good it seems:
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
AB de Villiers has been in a higher proportion of wins against Australia than Kohli (13/12 vs 15/17). ABDV also averages more against Australia (59 vs 53) AND in wins (76 vs 65) against Australia.
This is despite de Villiers playing a higher proportion of his matches against a stronger Australian side than Kohli.
Both are legends but looking at the stats against Australia probably explains why I rate de Villiers higher.
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
AB de Villiers has been in a higher proportion of wins against Australia than Kohli (13/12 vs 15/17). ABDV also averages more against Australia (59 vs 53) AND in wins (76 vs 65) against Australia.
This is despite de Villiers playing a higher proportion of his matches against a stronger Australian side than Kohli.
Both are legends but looking at the stats against Australia probably explains why I rate de Villiers higher.
Spark
Global Moderator
OverratedSanity
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Still one of the most outrageous innings I've ever seen in any format.
Spark
Global Moderator
There are other teams in the world that sides have to play against.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That is a pretty immense innings by anyone's standards.
And I don't want to come off like I don't rate Kohli. I do... He's obviously amongst the top three batsmen since the 90s and he bats 4 in my AT XI.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That's true, but I have no emotional investment in those games.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
It's not the averages , longevity is going to be the deciding factor .
Because avgng 60 plus today is same as avgng 50 couple of years ago.
Abdv career is very short for an atg batsman.
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
10+ years and 200+ ODI's matches?
h_hurricane
International Vice-Captain
Is it too early though ? Kohli is already at a stage where he has 16 hundreds and 1200 runs more than ABD.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Sachin , Viv , Dhoni , Lara , ponting, Jayasoorya ..etc were 15+
Only Bevan , and Gilly careers were shorter .. I think
His career was 2 years longer than Kohlis has been. Longevity is not an argument at this stage, unless you want to argue in favour of AB. And it's not likely to be. I doubt Kohli will be playing till he is close to 40. And if he is, comparing them at this stage in his career is utterly irrelevant- Kohli's record will change substantially
StephenZA
Hall of Fame Member
Sure. But it is not some sort of insignificant sample size.
I am not arguing whether he is/isn't a ATG just length of career is not really an issue here....
Edit: I do think there is a perception of having a short career, because he retired earlier than expected.
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Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Sachin
Viv
Abdv
Kohli
Dhoni
Lara
Ponting
Bevan
Abbas
Jones
Is my top 10
I rate Abdv > Kohli because Abdv's attacking ability. But there is not much difference , if kohli completes 15 years without damaging his stats , then he is my 3rd Greatest Batsman alltime. And that's almost certain.
Btw Bevan and Jones 10-11 yrs career becoming a concern for me now.
Pap Finn Keighl
International Debutant
Actually , my idea was they are about equals.. so , if Kohli plays 5 yrs longer ..it definitely counts in his favour .
marc71178
Eyes not spreadsheets
Stop with this total bollocks please.
If he retires with current stats after 15 its a 2 horse race between him and Viv imo, although we do need to look at how other bats have been performing. But his stats can change a lot in 4 years, in either direction.
Edit- I guess this shows my previous comment was wrong. Longevity could be an issue. There's nothing to separate him and ABs record. I'm giving him credit for longevity in this case.
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