Cricket Player Manager
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: Healy or Marsh

  1. #1
    U19 Vice-Captain Ford_GTHO351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    585

    Healy or Marsh

    Who do you all think was the better wicketkeeper, Ian Healy or Rodney Marsh?

    IMO I felt that Healy was the better wicketkeeper.
    My 2003 Australian Cricketers Rankings No.1's

    Test Batting: Mathew Hayden
    Test Bowling: Stuart MacGill
    ODI Batting: Ricky Ponting
    ODI Bowling: Brett Lee

    Ford Rules!

  2. #2
    International Regular NikhilN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    New Jersey.United States
    Posts
    3,517
    I would say Rodney Marsh because if you compare his match-catch stats to Ian they are much better
    Last edited by NikhilN; 16-05-2004 at 05:58 PM.
    liveyalifenikhilsway@hotmail.com -MSN

    Quote Originally Posted by Cricinfo
    Hello and welcome back
    Rain has stopped and palyers are back in the middle
    Play is about to stop

  3. #3
    U19 Vice-Captain Ford_GTHO351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    585
    Healy's Test wicketkeeping stats
    119 Matches, Catches: 366, Stumpings: 29

    Marsh's Test wicketkeeping stats
    96 Matches, Catches: 343, Stumpings: 12


    Healy's ODI wicketkeeping stats
    168 Matches, Catches: 194, Stumpings: 39

    Marsh's ODI wicketkeeping stats
    92 Matches, Catches: 120, Stumpings: 4

  4. #4
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    26,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Indian
    I would say Rodney Marsh because if he compare his match-catch stats to Ian they are much better
    Match-Catch stats are the worst statistical tools ever.
    MSN Messenger: minardineil2000 at hotmail dot com | AAAS Chairman
    CricketWeb Black | CricketWeb XI Captain
    ClarkeWatch: We're Watching Rikki - Are You?

    Up The Grecians - Exeter City FC

    Completing the Square: My Cricket Web Blog


  5. #5
    International Regular NikhilN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    New Jersey.United States
    Posts
    3,517
    Healy took 3 catches each match in tests while Marsh took 4 catches each match in tests.

    In ODIs Healy took 1 catche each match while March also took 1

  6. #6
    International Regular NikhilN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    New Jersey.United States
    Posts
    3,517
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Pickup
    Match-Catch stats are the worst statistical tools ever.
    not for me

  7. #7
    Cricket Web Staff Member / Global Moderator Neil Pickup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Oxford, England
    Posts
    26,859
    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Indian
    not for me
    Give me one good reason why they show anything at all about a wicketkeeper's ability?!

  8. #8
    Eyes not spreadsheets marc71178's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    England
    Posts
    57,857
    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Indian
    Healy took 3 catches each match in tests while Marsh took 4 catches each match in tests.
    But Marsh kept to Lillee where Heay kept to Warne (a lot of edges there going to slip rather than the keeper)
    marc71178 - President and founding member of AAAS - we don't only appreciate when he does well, but also when he's not quite so good!

    Anyone want to join the Society?

    Beware the evils of Kit-Kats - they're immoral apparently.

  9. #9
    U19 Vice-Captain Ford_GTHO351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Indian
    I would say Rodney Marsh because if you compare his match-catch stats to Ian they are much better
    Marsh played in a era when it was easier for the bowlers to set up and take wickets, so there was more of a chance that Marsh would get a catch/stumping.

    Healy played more in a era where the batsmen usually set the tone of the match, so therefore there was less of an chance for Healy to get a catch/stumping.

    So you can't really use match-catch stats to assess ones keeping ability.

    Healy was IMO the better keeper and to add, he is also in my best ever Test XI.

  10. #10
    U19 Vice-Captain Ford_GTHO351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by marc71178
    But Marsh kept to Lillee where Heay kept to Warne (a lot of edges there going to slip rather than the keeper)
    Quite true.

  11. #11
    International Debutant a massive zebra's Avatar
    Eggs Champion!
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    on my ass @ the PC
    Posts
    2,815
    I would say Healy because Marsh never proved himself to be a good keeper of spin bowling. His stumpings per match ratio is testimony to that. Im not saying he could not keep to spinners, just that Healy proved his ability to do so and Marsh did not.
    THE ULTIMATE CRICKET WEB ARCADE EGGS CHAMPION

    RIP Fardin Qayyumi (AKA "cricket player"; "Bob"), 1990-2006
    RIP Craig Walsh (AKA "Craig"), 1985-2012

  12. #12
    International Debutant SpaceMonkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Worcestershire, UK
    Posts
    2,082
    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra
    I would say Healy because Marsh never proved himself to be a good keeper of spin bowling. His stumpings per match ratio is testimony to that. Im not saying he could not keep to spinners, just that Healy proved his ability to do so and Marsh did not.
    That proves nothing, it just shows that Healy played with better spinners who gave him more CHANCE to stump.

    The only true way to prove who is the better keeper is to have stats like Percentage of catches took to catches they dropped and the same with stumpings. It would also help if you saw both keepers play and made for long periods and then you could make an informed view.

  13. #13
    State Captain krkode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,781
    What you really need is the match-drop statistic. Or the match-byes statistic.

    Like Neil expounded, match-catch statistics are worthless. They show nothing of the keeper's ability which is the point in question here. Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis were fast bowlers hence giving Moin Khan way way more catches than he would have had had he been playing for a primarily spin team like India. That said, Nayan Mongia probably has a lot fewer catches/match than Moin Khan. But it doesn't necessarily tell you who is the better keeper.
    Giving your wicket keeper catches shows the bowler's ability (composition) more than it does the keeper's. If wicket keeper A got 100 chances and took 100 catches in 100 matches, and wicket keeper B got 100 chances and took 100 catches in 101 matches, does B suddenly become the lesser keeper because he has a lower catch/match ratio? No!

  14. #14
    Hall of Fame Member luckyeddie's Avatar
    Target Champion! Stuarts Xtreme Skateboarding Champion!
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Derby, England
    Posts
    17,752
    Quote Originally Posted by Ford_GTHO351
    Marsh played in a era when it was easier for the bowlers to set up and take wickets, so there was more of a chance that Marsh would get a catch/stumping.

    Healy played more in a era where the batsmen usually set the tone of the match, so therefore there was less of an chance for Healy to get a catch/stumping.

    So you can't really use match-catch stats to assess ones keeping ability.

    Healy was IMO the better keeper and to add, he is also in my best ever Test XI.
    You'll have to run that one by me again. Are you saying that the bowlers of the 1970's were better than in the 80's and 90's yet the batters were worse or more gullible? Not being funny, just don't follow the argument.

    My gut feeling is that, of the two Healy, was the better wicket-keeper, and that's a judgment I make having watched them both on many occasions, not based on any statistic. He just looked neater, more compact, less scruffy, less likely to chisel a bookie when out for a stroll with Lillee - the usual criteria.

    I'd actually rate Healy as about the third or fourth-best keeper I've ever seen, so he wouldn't get near my all-time XI, but still a hell of a glove man.
    Nigel Clough's Black and White Army, beating Forest away with 10 men

  15. #15
    U19 Vice-Captain Ford_GTHO351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyeddie
    You'll have to run that one by me again. Are you saying that the bowlers of the 1970's were better than in the 80's and 90's yet the batters were worse or more gullible? Not being funny, just don't follow the argument.
    What I meant was that when Marsh was playing, most batsmen were less attacking than when Healy (especially in the latter part of his career) was playing. So you would of had batsmen in Marsh's era mainly playing defensively and there lies more of an opportunity for a edge. In Healy's era (mainly the second half of his career), batsmen would attack more and therefore there would be more of an opportunity they would either hold out to a fielder or be bowled.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •