Jack Hobbs vs Len Hutton vs Herbert Sutcliffe vs Sunil Gavaskar

[fredfertang]

As a matter of interest, when was Gavaskar considered "indisputably the best batsman in the world"?

Ask your average Indian supporter and they'll say right through the 70s and early 80s

I was ten when he averaged 150 in his first Test series, and there were plenty then who genuinely thought another Bradman might have appeared - didn't last too long as he wasn't great in England a few months later but he had a hell of a weight of expectation to carry

Was he the best in the late 70s? Viv and Greg Chappell will have their advocates but, Frank Hayes aside, I don't think there was anyone better than Gavaskar

 

[srbhkshk]

Ask your average Indian supporter and they'll say right through the 70s and early 80s

I was ten when he averaged 150 in his first Test series, and there were plenty then who genuinely thought another Bradman might have appeared - didn't last too long as he wasn't great in England a few months later but he had a hell of a weight of expectation to carry

Was he the best in the late 70s? Viv and Greg Chappell will have their advocates but, Frank Hayes aside, I don't think there was anyone better than Gavaskar

Thank you Fred, how will you rank the other three openers in the discussion?

 

[Anil]

Ask your average Indian supporter and they'll say right through the 70s and early 80s

I was ten when he averaged 150 in his first Test series, and there were plenty then who genuinely thought another Bradman might have appeared - didn't last too long as he wasn't great in England a few months later but he had a hell of a weight of expectation to carry

Was he the best in the late 70s? Viv and Greg Chappell will have their advocates but, Frank Hayes aside, I don't think there was anyone better than Gavaskar

yeah he may or may not have been the greatest batsman of his era, it is not always an apple-to-apple comparison anyway between openers and top/middle order batsmen and there is a lot of subjectivity involved, but he was certainly the best opener (in tests) for most of it...

 

[AndrewB]

Hammond had that extraordinarily successful series in Australia in 1928/29, didn't he. Not that I could tell you much about the strength or nature of the Aus attack in that series.

Grimmett and Ironmonger both played, though Don Blackie had the best average of the Aus bowlers. (Grimmett set the record, which he still holds, for most runs conceded in a series).

It wasn’t a good series for fast bowlers... Larwood and Tate were below White and Geary in the England averages. Gregory had a career-ending injury in the first Test.

 

[Austerlitz]

Sorry,but hobbs's batting technique is a joke.This would have no chance against todays bowlers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4jLdJiovyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoORpp1AdSk

Don't really rate hobbs from these clips with the horribly angled bat and weird footwork.Also he never really faced any fast bowlers,all the fast bowlers have wktkeeper up to the stumps lol.

Like Len hutton's technique though.
But i would pick gavaskar because of the quality of bowling he faced over his career.And also he was equally good against spin in subcontinent conditions and outside.

 

[fredfertang]

Also he never really faced any fast bowlers,all the fast bowlers have wktkeeper up to the stumps lol.

Admittedly there weren't too many quicks around in Hobbs' time, but Gregory and McDonald were as good as any and in the trainwreck that was England's 5-0 defeat in 1920/21 he averaged 50.50

 

[the big bambino]

Hobbs faced plenty of class bowlers of all kinds at fc and test level.

 

[Red]

AFAIK

Hutton rated Gavaskar best of his era.
Sobers rated Gavaskar as the best he has seen.
Proctor rated Gavaskar > Barry

References for these claims, especially the last one?

 

[Red]

for me Matty Hayden is ahead of all of them tbh

Providing the opposition didnt contain any real quality pace.

 

[Burgey]

Sobers rated Gavaskar as number 1 ahead of Pollock , Barry , Viv , Sachin, Lara and himself.
And Hutton was no Bradman to change his views for sure.

Sir Gary is a notoriously modest man.

 

[Burgey]

Ask your average Indian supporter and they'll say right through the 70s and early 80s

I was ten when he averaged 150 in his first Test series, and there were plenty then who genuinely thought another Bradman might have appeared - didn't last too long as he wasn't great in England a few months later but he had a hell of a weight of expectation to carry

Was he the best in the late 70s? Viv and Greg Chappell will have their advocates but, Frank Hayes aside, I don't think there was anyone better than Gavaskar

It’s an interesting POV because whenever he played here against something close to a decent side he was average. Played in the ROW series in the early 70s then in 80/81. Did well in 77 against the WSC-less side and in 85/86 which was the previous low point in Australian cricket.

 

[Red]

It’s an interesting POV because whenever he played here against something close to a decent side he was average. Played in the ROW series in the early 70s then in 80/81. Did well in 77 against the WSC-less side and in 85/86 which was the previous low point in Australian cricket.

Yeh, it was posted here a few years back that his record against the WI pacemen had a bit of fallacy to it if you just rely on statsguru searches.

No doubt he was incredibly high quality but his record isn't as good as it appears first glance when it's broken down.

 

[Chrish]

Gavaskar's record against WI is pretty interesting. He faced the quartet in two series in 1983: One in WI and other in India. His scores in those series are as below:

20, 0, 1, 32, 147*, 2, 19, 18, 1

0, 7, 121, 15, 90, 1, 12, 3, 0, 20, 236*

So,as one can see from these scores, either he has gone big against them, or he got out really cheap. In fact there is string of very low scores. But all this tells me that he must have got out quite early in his innings; even without facing all the bowlers of the quartet. If he had trouble building the inning due to prolonged pace attack, he would have gotten out lot more between 20s -50s but that's not the case. So, why did he get out cheap so often? Bowling was too good? Decline in form? Decline with the age? I don't know.

But I think "Gavaskar didn't do well against WI in later part of his career" is more accurate statement than "Gavaskar failed against the quartet". IMO of course.

 

[OverratedSanity]

It’s an interesting POV because whenever he played here against something close to a decent side he was average. Played in the ROW series in the early 70s then in 80/81. Did well in 77 against the WSC-less side and in 85/86 which was the previous low point in Australian cricket.

85/86 had Reid and McDermott right? That's still a damn good bowling attack. Going purely by names of course, which probably isn't a good assumption since for all I know they could've bowled garbage.

 

[the big bambino]

McDermott could be patchy but you could tell Reid was special even then.

 

[sunilz]

Yeh, it was posted here a few years back that his record against the WI pacemen had a bit of fallacy to it if you just rely on statsguru searches.

No doubt he was incredibly high quality but his record isn't as good as it appears first glance when it's broken down.

Well if you break down the record of 99% ATG cricketers you will find them not so great . Take for eg. Gavaskar scored more runs in 1 series in WI(774) than Ponting scored in Asia in his 2002-06 peak period(753) . And if you break that down further you will find that Ponting in his 2002-06 period played only 1 test in IND in which he also failed. So one can come to conclusion that Ponting's peak period coincided with him playing so few in Asia.

 

[Starfighter]

Well if you break down the record of 99% ATG cricketers you will find them not so great . Take for eg. Gavaskar scored more runs in 1 series in WI(774) than Ponting scored in Asia in his 2002-06 peak period(753) . And if you break that down further you will find that Ponting in his 2002-06 period played only 1 test in IND in which he also failed. So one can come to conclusion that Ponting's peak period coincided with him playing so few in Asia.

Trolling with plenty of bait I see.

 

[sunilz]

One thing I have never understood why do people consider Gavaskar averaging 40 against WI pace quartret a failure ? That is the same average which Tendulkar and Lara had against Mcgrath, Donald and Pollock , Wasim and Waqar .

 

[sunilz]

Trolling with plenty of bait I see.

Actually if I had to troll I would have brought Greg Chappell's record who was Gavaskar's contemporary . And believe me I have already broken Chapppell's record and it is not so flattering . Saving it for another occasion. I am just stating the fact that 99% ATG cricketers perform better against average opponents as compared to great opponents.

 

[Starfighter]

I don't need stats sliced in a way that aligns with your shoulder chip thank you.