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Thread: Spin bowling in Test & Limited overs cricket

  1. #1
    Cricketer Of The Year SeamUp's Avatar
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    Spin bowling in Test & Limited overs cricket

    Remember when finding a good leg-spinner for test cricket was dream world ?

    But now it seems finger spinners are performing better and are backed more for the longer format ? DRS and the ability to attack the pads with more accuracy. Is this a positive ? How much easier is it for spinners to pick up test wickets due to techniques and attitude to batting compared to the past and how much has DRS played its part ?

    Leg-spinners are now limited overs cricket weapons more. Obviously spinning the ball both ways is tougher to line up.

    Am I right in getting this feeling ? What are our thoughts on the state of spin bowling.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 11-10-2018 at 01:11 AM.
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Two new balls killed reverse swing and finger spin in limited overs.

    Spot on about tests. DRS has made padding away balls outside off very difficult since umpires are now more willing to give those out than before. It's definitely a positive from a spectacle standpoint imo since it's made collapses against spin more common and it's fun to watch big burly aggressive batsmen with #intent look scared shitless when a fat spinner lobs a ball at 80kmph at them.
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    International Coach Starfighter's Avatar
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    Finger spin has almost always been predominant over leg spin. The times it hasn't have been the aberrations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    Two new balls killed finger spin in limited overs.


    Decades from now people will talk about Jadhav as the solitary force behind reviving finger spin in limited overs cricket.


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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfighter View Post
    Finger spin has almost always been predominant over leg spin. The times it hasn't have been the aberrations.
    Though tbf that was mostly in the time of uncovered pitches. From about 1970 up until the mid-90's where Warne was making his mark spin had little influence out of the subcontinent. Then up until DRS wrist-spin was seen as the best course of action. These days it feels like finger-spin is a threat anywhere, not just turners which is partly down to the DRS making it harder to pad balls away, partially down to batsmen not having the techniques they used to.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post


    Decades from now people will talk about Jadhav as the solitary force behind reviving finger spin in limited overs cricket.
    Odd that LOI finger spin seems to the domain of quickish dart throwers, those who are actually good at the art aren't anywhere near as relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Odd that LOI finger spin seems to the domain of quickish dart throwers, those who are actually good at the art aren't anywhere near as relevant.
    It's not just finger spin tbf, even the leggies doing well are pretty quick through the air.

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    Mujeeb ur Rahman is an off spinner who bowls a googly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Odd that LOI finger spin seems to the domain of quickish dart throwers, those who are actually good at the art aren't anywhere near as relevant.
    LOI spin bowling is mainly about keeping the runs down so it makes sense.

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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    I think there are a few things going on.

    First, I think risk management plays a role. If you're defending 350 in an ODI, you can risk getting hit for six to get a wicket. If you're defending 260ish, the risk doesn't seem worth it. That's why we see Adil Rashid thrive in run-fests in England, while Yuzi, Kuldeep, Tahir, Shadab etc bowl quicker in the air in conditions where 280 is a good score. Seems counter intuitive to bowl flatter in low-scoring conditions, but it makes sense if you think about it.

    On top of that, when you have a slow-paced pitch, it is better for a spinner to bowl quick and flat. The ball won't come on to the bat anyways, and by giving it air you're giving the batsman a chance to use his feet to generate power. It is similar in a way to how quick bowlers resort to bowling cutters and slower balls in these conditions. All you're trying to do as a bowling attack is hit that middle ground of not having pace on the ball, but also not giving batsmen something they can use their feet against. A lot of ODI and T20 cricket is being played in conditions like these, so we're seeing more of these bowlers.

    Lastly, with regards to Jadhav - he's not your traditional flattish dart flinger. What's been making him effective is slinging the ball in, and how little spin he actually puts on the ball. The amount of spin on the ball is important for a batsman to generate power behind shots - the more revs on the ball, the better it flies off the bat. So when Jadhav is slinging in short balls with no spin that only rise up to shin height, he doesn't just make it difficult for the batsman to use his feet to generate power, but he also takes a lot of energy off the ball.

    In a way what Jadhav is doing is kinda like the knuckle ball in baseball. And it isn't new really - the slow non-spinner has always been weirdly effective at lower levels of limited overs cricket. The reason they succeed is that they require pretty good technique and timing to put away, and often those just below the Elite level don't have what it takes. I think it's doing so well in modern ODI cricket because batsman now are more reliant on power than they ever have been. Techniques just aren't as good. Plus scores are higher now than they ever were - you can't get away by milking the fifth bowler for 4-5 runs an over like you used to. As a result, a lot of modern batsmen are trying to hit Jadhav out of the attack, and end up losing their wicket in the process.

    I don't know if Jadhav is just a flash-in-the-pan that will be figured out sooner than later, or if he is really heralding a new era in spin bowling. But it would be pretty amusing if sincere pie chucking becomes a thing. It would be like how dibbly dobbly medium pace ruled ODI cricket for a good decade or so.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    Odd that LOI finger spin seems to the domain of quickish dart throwers, those who are actually good at the art aren't anywhere near as relevant.
    A lot of the best finger-spinners in the world atm have been critical to their nation's Test sides though, and we haven't really seen any of them get a proper run at being a limited overs specialist. And they're two very different jobs. Bowling consistently in one area all day vs constantly varying it. I'm not surprised that no one is able to do both at a high level constantly. Similarly all the gun ODI leggies aren't in their nation's Test sides.

    Also pretty clearly Legspin/Wristspin is better suited to limited overs cricket than finger spin. You have the ability to bowl a googly. You can't really bowl a well hidden variation that spins the other way as a finger spinner unless you're a freak like Murali/Saqlain or you Ajmal it. Herath and Ashwin are the only finger spinners going around atm to really have mastered the Carrom ball, and they're Test specialists now. And there was Mendis who dominated LOs for a while till he faded away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Lastly, with regards to Jadhav - he's not your traditional flattish dart flinger. What's been making him effective is slinging the ball in, and how little spin he actually puts on the ball. The amount of spin on the ball is important for a batsman to generate power behind shots - the more revs on the ball, the better it flies off the bat. So when Jadhav is slinging in short balls with no spin that only rise up to shin height, he doesn't just make it difficult for the batsman to use his feet to generate power, but he also takes a lot of energy off the ball.
    huh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    huh
    It's why no one ever hits fast bowlers for six.

    Physics works differently in zorax world.
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    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend zorax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    huh
    Two balls delivered at the same speed, the one with more spin on it posses more energy. You've surely noticed this when you bat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Two balls delivered at the same speed, the one with more spin on it posses more energy. You've surely noticed this when you bat.
    No, I never have. If anything it's the straight ones that hit the bat harder on the pitches I play on.

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