Jason Holder

[Fuller Pilch]

Is he turning into an elite allrounder or has he just padding his stats? Discuss

 

[Mr Miyagi]

He's always been talented.

Many fans have long rated his batting.

The question for me is, how good is he really bowling? 28 wickets at 12 this summer vs SL and Bangladesh.

 

[trundler]

No, slippy, not a waste man.

Oh wait. He's been exceptional this summer. Needs to be tested against better batting though. His batting is very good already.

 

[Borges]

West Indies are not a spin heavy side; Holder is their third/fourth seamer who would generally be expected to play the role of a stock bowler.
He is good enough for that; fairly steady and can bowl reasonably long spells.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

West Indies are not a spin heavy side; Holder is their third/fourth seamer who would generally be expected to play the role of a stock bowler.
He is good enough for that; fairly steady and can bowl reasonably long spells.

He has been good enough for that in the past because of his batting. But the OP wants to know I suspect whether Holder is going down the path of Cairns and Flintoff.

I really don't know what to make of his bowling at home this summer, when he was fairly dour in NZ and Eng away recently.

 

[Slifer]

Imo he's good enough to average say 30 with both bat and ball which is no mean feat. Of course he padded his stats recently. Why shouldn't he. Other players have padded theirs in favorable situations as well. That's the nature of our sport.

 

[cnerd123]

Dunnow if he's elite, but if he can keep this up over a sizeable career he can definitely be an ATVG

Most us thought he just be another Sammy but he's a definite step up for Tests

 

[Borges]

He can become a very good player. But definitely don't see him evolving into a West Indian ATVG. Don't think he will be a candidate for even an West Indian ATG team.

 

[trundler]

The 3 Ws, Kanhai, and Garner don't make a West Indian ATG team though. Hardly fair. I do see your point though.

 

[Shri]

I like the guy's cricket. Always punches above his weight i.e does better than what people expect almost every time.

 

[cnerd123]

The 3 Ws, Kanhai, and Garner don't make a West Indian ATG team though. Hardly fair. I do see your point though.

Some countries have so many ATGs they can fill multiple XIs.

 

[trundler]

Some countries have so many ATGs they can fill multiple XIs.

Not India, Bangladesh or Hong Kong though.
Australia and WI are most fun for these exercises because of all the variety. You can build a world beater team in so many ways.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Hard to tell. Rating a fast bowler from playing against BD and SL at home is like calling a spinner a superstar based on bowling to Australia on a dustbowl

 

[Borges]

Hey trundler, you should start putting numbers after these ATVG and ATG teams.

For example: Moeen Ali (England) ATVG23, ATG17 ie. All time Very Great Team #23 and All Time Great Team #17
Or for that matter, in brief, ATG (V23/NV17)

 

[trundler]

Hey trundler, you should start putting numbers after these ATVG and ATG teams.

For example: Moeen Ali (England) ATVG23, ATG17 ie. All time Very Great Team #23 and All Time Great Team #17
Or for that matter, in brief, ATG (V23/NV17)

I may not have a social life but even I don't have THAT much free time, brah.

 

[Slifer]

Some countries have so many ATGs they can fill multiple XIs.

The unfortunate thing for the wi is that each team except for them currently has at least one player or one recent player who could legitimately make their all time xi:
Oz: Smith
Nz : Williamson, Taylor, Boult
Ind: Kohli , Ashwin
Rsa: Steyn
Sl : Herath
Eng: Root, Anderson (?)
Pak: younis khan
Wi: nobody

And it's not just because wi historically has many atgs. Recently, we've struggled to produce anyone remotely approaching world class. Nobody in the current team is.

 

[trundler]

Give Hetmeyer time. He has potential. And Root and Ashwin don't make an ATG team either.

 

[Shri]

Give Hetmeyer time. He has potential. And Root and Ashwin don't make an ATG team either.

Ashwin does. Comparable away from home to Kumble and better at home. Root easily makes an ATG ODI XI for eng and will probably make the test XI when he retires. Anderson won't though. Maybe a 3rd or 4th best ATG team for eng not because he's that bad but since eng has produced so many fast bowling legends before him in tests.

 

[turnstyle]

I was literally going to make the same post.

I reckon he'll end up with stats something similar to Watson. 2-3 wickets per match and an average in the mid 30's with the bat.

He's almost matched him on 100's

 

[fredfertang]

Holder much more likeable than Watto though