From Rabble to Glory - Players and Teams that started off crap but got much better

[wpdavid]

He (Cairns) could only carry a team so far.

Especially when not playing in any of the 1999 tests against SA, which my research team tell me is the case..
Those that did play took a grand total of 16 wickets in the 3 match series. Apparently the pitches in the first two tests were complete roads. NZ only lost the series 1-0, which says something about their resilience actually.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Especially when not playing in any of the 1999 tests against SA, which my research team tell me is the case..
Those that did play took a grand total of 16 wickets in the 3 match series. Apparently the pitches in the first two tests were complete roads. NZ only lost the series 1-0, which says something about their resilience actually.

Between Crowe and until Bond, NZC's success was far too reliant on Cairns.

Shakib would understand this kind of weight. Brendon Taylor too, I really don't think Ponting and Tendulkar would, tbh.

 

[Burgey]

It was too reliant on cairns because, whilst mercurial, he really wasn’t consistently good.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

It was too reliant on cairns because, whilst mercurial, he really wasn’t consistently good.

He was the only player good enough to make the peak Australian team (besides Bond later), as embarrassingly true as that is. He could easily replace Lee on bowling alone before batting.

Cairns was consistently good, he consistently lacked any support.

Fantastic player who would have better stats in a stronger team.

The guy could play cricket at a very high level, his team mates, less so.

 

[Burgey]

He could play at a very high level, he just didn’t do it consistently enough, either die to accident or his own choice.

There were 3 or 4 blokes who could have replaced Lee easily on the peak Australian side. That really means not a great deal at all.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

He could play at a very high level, he just didn’t do it consistently enough, either die to accident or his own choice.

There were 3 or 4 blokes who could have replaced Lee easily on the peak Australian side. That really means not a great deal at all.

Maybe not, but Cairns is still hard to leave out of a combined team. Try it.

 

[mr_mister]

yeah Binga got way too many tests. Never got why Fleming never got much of a look-in again after his insanely good 99-00 home season. Brett Lee the main reason?

 

[Burgey]

Maybe not, but Cairns is still hard to leave out of a combined team. Try it.

Slater
Taylor
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel/ Fleming/ Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

I didn’t find it that difficult tbh. Left out Hayden and Langer as I was more focused on mid to late 90s.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Slater
Taylor
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel/ Fleming/ Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

I didn’t find it that difficult tbh. Left out Hayden and Langer as I was more focused on mod to late 90s.

Bichel/Flemming/Lee?

Oh you jest - lol!

And what on earth is Taylor doing there????

[Edit] read your edit on Taylor - but still - lol

 

[Burgey]

Yeah they were better in that role at nine than Cairns would have been, easily. A combined team of that era didn’t need an all rounder because it had two ATG bowlers, one atvg bowler and a gun batting line up. If I had to pick an allrounder from that era for a combined team then I would pick him.

He was a fine cricketer but he was a bit too Rocks and Diamonds for my liking.

EdiIt: taylor makes it easily in a combined Aus-NZ XI of that era. I realise he was no Mark Greatbatch, but I think he snatches it.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Yeah they were better in that role at nine than Cairns would have been, easily. A combined team of that era didn’t need an all rounder because it had two ATG bowlers, one atvg bowler and a gun batting line up. If I had to pick an allrounder from that era for a combined team then I would pick him.

He was a fine cricketer but he was a bit too Rocks and Diamonds for my liking.

EdiIt: taylor makes it easily in a combined Aus-NZ XI of that era. I realise he was no Kark Greatbatch, but I think he snatches it.

Oh please, stop letting ***** throw rocks at you causing you brain damage and bat Cairns at 8 instead of no centuries and better for 9 Warnie already :P

And as if Lee was a better bowler even for 9. Get out here.

 

[Burgey]

Cairns isn’t needed at eight or nine when he’s being considered purely as a bowler. He wasn’t good enough. Lee is my third choice for that role in any event, just ahead of Matthew Nicholson who shades Cairns as a bowler anyway. If it’s a Bunsen then MacGill comes in at ten and Gillespie moves up a spot.

Just set aside the partisanship for a second and think about the balance of he team. Cairns at eight is surplus to requirements with the bat and doesnt cut it as a bowler.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Cairns isn’t needed at eight or nine when he’s being considered purely as a bowler. He wasn’t good enough. Lee is my third choice for that role in any event, just ahead of Matthew Nicholson who shades Cairns as a bowler anyway. If it’s a Bunsen then MacGill comes in at ten and Gillespie moves up a spot.

Just set aside the partisanship for a second and think about the balance of he team. Cairns at eight is surplus to requirements with the bat and doesnt cut it as a bowler.

Lol. I love it when 8's like Woakes and Jadeja lead stupid Australian thinking that 8 is a bowler position only into losses in any format.

If 8's don't bat - where's your engine room?

 

[Burgey]

Yeah cos the Australian side of the mid-late 90s lost so many matches.

Noted prolific test match run scoring number eights Jadeja and Woakes excelled against that side.

**** you’re stupid. You think you can shift a discussion with me about a combined Aus-NZ side of the late 90s by bringing examples of blokes from other countries who play in the 2010s and that I or anyone else will fall for it? Honestly, get in the bin you dribbler.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Yeah cos the Australian side of the mid-late 90s lost so many matches.

Noted prolific test match run scoring number eights Jadeja and Woakes excelled against that side.

**** you’re stupid. You think you can shift a discussion with me about a combined Aus-NZ side of the late 90s by bringing examples of blokes from other countries who play in the 2010s and that I or anyone else will fall for it? Honestly, get in the bin you dribbler.

Oh chin up Burgey. You claim you're a lawyer and the heart and soul of this forum, and you resort to "**** you're stupid" and "get in the bin you dribbler". That's pretty pathetic posting, not for a lawyer, not for an intelligent person, not for the heart and soul of this forum, but for anyone. And I do mean anyone.

Don't be so sensitive, and don't be so stupid as to resort to ad hominem. I don't know if you're better than this, but I suggest you to be.

Many players have batted 8 well in many decades - look at Imran, look at Kapil - I just chose Woakes because I am a fan of his in current times. It wasn't a trap, it wasn't a slight of hand - it was simply an observation. Get over it and don't be so sensitive. I know Woakes smashed Aus at #8 this year in the ODI, but Aus used to have Davidson and Lindwall at 8 - well before Woakes was even born. Maybe even before you were born. Maybe. Either way, it isn't novel to have an 8 who can bat well. For many coaches and selectors - it is a factor in selection!

Be happy, post positively. Be a good bloke. Just insulting people you disagree with is just too cliche. Know where the line is. And if this doesn't cross it - expect such pleasantries back in future, because if you seriously think for one second that you cerebrally intimidate me, or your insults scare me, you're very deeply mistaken

 

[mr_mister]

cmon boys calm down and make up

 

[Burgey]

But you are stupid and a dribbler. The latest in the litany of exhibits is the very post where you advocate Cairns being selected in a combined late 90s Aus-NZ test XI by raising a Pom and an Indian who play in the 2010s, neither of whom ftr have performed away from home.

Fmd Jadeja was dropped from the Indian team on a recent tour because of his ineffectiveness with the ball. Can’t recall whether Woakes was from the England side as well, I had it in mind he was out here but cbf looking it up.

It’s junk posting from a junk poster, and no amount of high handedness makes up for it. Neither does the passive-aggressive schtick you bung on in so many of your posts. Just be aggressive instead when the mood takes you. Own it ffs.

 

[Jack1]

Steven Smith

Averages 74.25 in 27 tests at number 4.

Averages 67.07 at 3 and 61.8 at 5.

First 16 tests between 2010-13. He made 970 runs in 31 innings. Out 28 times for an average of 34.64.

Since then his average has rocketed obviously. Now an overall average of 61.37 in 64 tests.

The 48 tests since the first 16 he's made 5229 runs at an average of 71.63.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

But you are stupid and a dribbler. The latest in the litany of exhibits is the very post where you advocate Cairns being selected in a combined late 90s Aus-NZ test XI by raising a Pom and an Indian who play in the 2010s, neither of whom ftr have performed away from home.

Fmd Jadeja was dropped from the Indian team on a recent tour because of his ineffectiveness with the ball. Can’t recall whether Woakes was from the England side as well, I had it in mind he was out here but cbf looking it up.

It’s junk posting from a junk poster, and no amount of high handedness makes up for it. Neither does the passive-aggressive schtick you bung on in so many of your posts. Just be aggressive instead when the mood takes you. Own it ffs.

Lol!

He is still going with ad hominem!

This is funnier than Monty Python!

Tell me how you really feel Burgey? Tell me more about how you're the heart and soul of this website. Or a lawyer.

I love your jokes

Love how you're now a psychologist as well. So multi-talented, or rather multi-humoured.

 

[Burgey]

I’ve told you how I feel. Why is this so difficult for you to get through the noggin?