From Rabble to Glory - Players and Teams that started off crap but got much better

[Flem274*]

no one with a brain (or anyone who saw him bowl) thought wagner was the next bond. also his first couple of seasons for otago he was underwhelming averaging north of 30.

Suranga Lakmal

Began absolutely dire, well below test standard. Has become SL's most consistent and reliable fast bowler since Vaas, although obviously still without that level of class. Able to play the holding role in tough conditions, but can make early breakthroughs and get the ball moving around over long spells in favourable conditions.

Not to mention as of now he is SL's test captain

sri lankan cricket is dead

 

[Cow]

I think the 70's was the worst decade in the twentieth century. Especially for sport.

 

[trundler]

I think the 70's was the worst decade in the twentieth century. Especially for sport.

Fashion, yes. Cricket? No. Music? GTFOH

 

[Mr Miyagi]

no one with a brain (or anyone who saw him bowl) thought wagner was the next bond. also his first couple of seasons for otago he was underwhelming averaging north of 30.

Welcome for your ever prescient thoughts Flem, a valuable contribution that totally overlooks that;

1 I said "best thing since Hadlee or Bond" (which he is in fact still neck and neck with Boult for...)

and 2;


2010/11 Wagner's Otago average was 9 matches 51w at 18;

2011/12 10 matches 46w at 26;

2011/12 7 matches 30w at 25;

2012/13 4 matches 22w at 23.59;


Where did the hype come from? This may have had something to do with it:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10717509

 

[Mr Miyagi]

I think the 70's was the worst decade in the twentieth century. Especially for sport.

Great decade for music, though.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Fashion, yes. Cricket? No. Music? GTFOH

1970's music was fantastic. Seriously.

 

[trundler]

We haven't come close to anything like that before or since. So many great bands. So many different kinds of great music. Like the 90s for cricket in a way.

 

[Borges]

I think the 70's was the worst decade in the twentieth century. Especially for sport.

70's was the greatest decade in the history of sport.
1970 had Carlos Alberto's Brazil and Beckenbauer's Germany, 74 had Johan Cruyff's Holland, and 78 had Passarella's Argentina. What more could you ask for in one decade.

 

[Adders]

Less Germany and Argentina for a start.

 

[cnerd123]

Worst year for sport was clearly 1966 guys

 

[Beamer]

Ramnaresh Sarwan in his first year of test cricket toured Australia and scored 3 runs in 5 innings before a gritty 50 in Sydney probably saved him from the scrap heap.

Went on to have a decent career and scored a couple of tons against Australia in later series

Only thing is he had already made a magnificent 80 odd against Waqar and Wasim on his debut, so it was clear he had class. That Aussie tour was tough for him though, he had a high backlift and kept on being yorked by Brett Lee.

 

[Burgey]

Worst year for sport was clearly 1966 guys

1983 and 2011.

 

[wpdavid]

Guys, don't be shy to discuss teams. This is a team sport afterall.


What changed the team's fortunes? The form of certain individuals, the game or selection plan. Share what you know or think.

Obvious candidates are the EWCB team before the 2005 Ashes (was 2005 just KP and Flintoff?),

tbf England's cricketers had been on the up for a year or so before the 2005 series; winning in SA, and whitewashing NZ during the previous summer.
Various factors spring to mind. Simon Jones returning from long term injury, Hoggard staying fit after missing the 2003 home series, Flintoff's improvement. Geraint Jones scoring well at number 7. And then of course the arrival of KP as a test match player in the summer of 2005.

You could ask the same question about England's transformation from 2007/early 2009 to world number 1 in 2011.
From memory, lost at home to India in 2007 and at home to SA in 2008. Lost in WI early 2009, including 51ao.
Was it all down to the arrival of Andy Flower? He's been pilloried for the 2013/14 whitewash, but his record from 2009 to 2013 was outstanding.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

tbf England's cricketers had been on the up for a year or so before the 2005 series; winning in SA, and whitewashing NZ during the previous summer.
Various factors spring to mind. Simon Jones returning from long term injury, Hoggard staying fit after missing the 2003 home series, Flintoff's improvement. Geraint Jones scoring well at number 7. And then of course the arrival of KP as a test match player in the summer of 2005.

You could ask the same question about England's transformation from 2007/early 2009 to world number 1 in 2011.
From memory, lost at home to India in 2007 and at home to SA in 2008. Lost in WI early 2009, including 51ao.
Was it all down to the arrival of Andy Flower? He's been pilloried for the 2013/14 whitewash, but his record from 2009 to 2013 was outstanding.

I honestly believe England going to #1 in early 2011 was no Flintoff, 4 bowlers of which 3, Broad, Bresnan and Swann were good bats followed by Anderson. England batted to #10 and they won with only Collingwood trundling a few overs when required.

The 4 plus 7 balance, with KP. Cook, Prior et al was key imo.

 

[wpdavid]

Another example for me is NZ in 1999. iirc they'd played a 3 test series against SA when NZ weren't just beaten heavily, but only managed to take a handful of wickets in the whole series.
Then they arrive in England and their attack performed like world beaters.
Now I'm aware that England's batting wasn't as good as SA's. But were there any other factors?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Another example for me is NZ in 1999. iirc they'd played a 3 test series against SA when NZ weren't just beaten heavily, but only managed to take a handful of wickets in the whole series.
Then they arrive in England and their attack performed like world beaters.
Now I'm aware that England's batting wasn't as good as SA's. But were there any other factors?

Cairns, Cairns and Cairns.

 

[wpdavid]

Cairns, Cairns and Cairns.

Did he not play against SA?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Did he not play against SA?

He could only carry a team so far.

 

[Flem274*]

Welcome for your ever prescient thoughts Flem, a valuable contribution that totally overlooks that;

1 I said "best thing since Hadlee or Bond" (which he is in fact still neck and neck with Boult for...)

and 2;


2010/11 Wagner's Otago average was 9 matches 51w at 18;

2011/12 10 matches 46w at 26;

2011/12 7 matches 30w at 25;

2012/13 4 matches 22w at 23.59;


Where did the hype come from? This may have had something to do with it:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10717509

now go back to 2008

 

[Mr Miyagi]

now go back to 2008

Flem retires, Southee debuts, Botham thinks Rutherford is a good bat.

I'm with you - and?

Can't wait for Ryder btw.