2018 Windies vs 2000 Windies

[jimmy101]

Slippy style thread here. The question is just how good is this current Windies team? Is this the long awaited Windies renaissance? Or just another false dawn?

Thought I'd start a comparison thread between the current team & the last team the Windies had which was a competitive unit, the team which toured England in 2000.

2018

KC Brathwaite
DS Smith
KOA Powell
SD Hope
RL Chase
SO Dowrich+
JO Holder*
D Bishoo
KAJ Roach
ML Cummins
ST Gabriel

vs

2000

SL Campbell
CH Gayle
WW Hinds
BC Lara
S Chanderpaul
JC Adams*
RD Jacobs+
CEL Ambrose
FA Rose
RD King
CA WAlsh

 

[Mr Miyagi]

The current team has pathetic batting and no ATG. And the 2000 team has Lara, Chanders*, Walsh and Ambrose.

* I get he got much better after his foot surgery, but he did kick on to ATG status.

 

[jimmy101]

Funny thing is if a few years ago someone said to me in 2018 the Windies would be kicking some ass I would have expected Darren Bravo to be piling on the runs. Crazy how quickly he disappeared.

Arguably you could find a place for Gayle in the 2018 team as well.

 

[_Ed_]

I like the 2018 team, but I don't think you can seriously argue that many (any?) would make a combined XI from those two teams. Maybe Brathwaite as one of the openers and possibly Roach, but that's about it IMO.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Funny thing is if a few years ago someone said to me in 2018 the Windies would be kicking some ass I would have expected Darren Bravo to be piling on the runs. Crazy how quickly he disappeared.

Arguably you could find a place for Gayle in the 2018 team as well.

Gayle goes disappearing from the ODI field, he wouldn't get through a day of test fielding and be back in time to open.

Gayle's back injuries have definitely ended any chance of a test recall today.

Bravo is a sore loss. They would be much better with him, and some additional batting.

It is one thing celebrating Gabriel and Roach taking wickets, but their most pressing problem is still their batting.

 

[jimmy101]

I like the 2018 team, but I don't think you can seriously argue that many (any?) would make a combined XI from those two teams. Maybe Brathwaite as one of the openers and possibly Roach, but that's about it IMO.

True, although Holder might be in with a shout over Rose or King.

 

[jimmy101]

Gayle goes disappearing from the ODI field, he wouldn't get through a day of test fielding and be back in time to open.

Gayle's back injuries have definitely ended any chance of a test recall today.

Yeah I think the book is firmly closed on Gayle in Tests.

 

[anil1405]

Funny thing is if a few years ago someone said to me in 2018 the Windies would be kicking some ass I would have expected Darren Bravo to be piling on the runs. Crazy how quickly he disappeared.

Arguably you could find a place for Gayle in the 2018 team as well.

It's frustrating to see someone with such talent lacking immensely in temperament.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

True, although Holder might be in with a shout over Rose or King.

Doubtful. I think it would be more like this:

1 Gayle
2 Brathwaite
3 Lara
4 Chanderpaul
5 Adams
6 Hinds/Holder/Chase
7 Dowrich/Jacobs
8 Gabriel
9 Roach
10 Curtley
11 Courtney

Even with the batting weaknesses at 6 and 7, and lack of top quality spin, this is a more than useful team.

 

[jimmy101]

Doubtful. I think it would be more like this:

1 Gayle
2 Brathwaite
3 Lara
4 Chanderpaul
5 Adams
6 Hinds/Holder/Chase
7 Dowrich/Jacobs
8 Gabriel
9 Roach
10 Curtley
11 Courtney

Not a bad looking side but No. 8 is too high of a batting position for Gabriel. I'd stick Ambrose at 8.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Not a bad looking side but No. 8 is too high of a batting position for Gabriel. I'd stick Ambrose at 8.

Yeah, it is a long tail. Which is why WI need Chase to stand up, make the position his own, and make consistent runs.

Ironically - the WI tail is currently wagging well - inspired by Holder's efforts.

 

[jimmy101]

Yeah, it is a long tail. Which is why WI need Chase to stand up, make the position his own, and make consistent runs.

Ironically - the WI tail is currently wagging well - inspired by Holder's efforts.

Whatever happened to #batdeep bro?

Holder at 7/8 would be ideal IMO. Might even have to squeeze Bishoo in on the grounds of him being a frontline spinner & useful lower order batsman.

 

[jimmy101]

It's frustrating to see someone with such talent lacking immensely in temperament.

What do you think the odds of a Darren Bravo comeback are?

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Whatever happened to #batdeep bro?

Holder at 7/8 would be ideal IMO. Might even have to squeeze Bishoo in on the grounds of him being a frontline spinner & useful lower order batsman.

Heh. Trust me - I thought about it, but Holder is such a spud of a bowler away from home. His batting is critical to the team currently, but his bowling on tour is just economical.

I think the best chances of a 2000/18 combined team to win is just go all out in the field and rough the opposition up when the ball isn't going sideways. It isn't like Dowrich or Jacobs make that many centuries anyway even if they bat deeper.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

What do you think the odds of a Darren Bravo comeback are?

At 29 years of age - still fairly good.

 

[quincywagstaff]

That 2000 looks good on paper but in reality they were depressingly bad. Lara was in the middle of a 3 year form slump (1999 v Oz excepted), Ambrose & Walsh were still challenging bowlers but lacking their peak lethal ability, Adams was done and as someone else said Chanderpaul wouldn’t become consistent for a few years yet.

I guess my memory is defined by how bad they were when they toured Australia at the end of 2000; a guarantee they wouldn’t get any more 5 Test series.

 

[jimmy101]

That 2000 looks good on paper but in reality they were depressingly bad. Lara was in the middle of a 3 year form slump (1999 v Oz excepted), Ambrose & Walsh were still challenging bowlers but lacking their peak lethal ability, Adams was done and as someone else said Chanderpaul wouldn’t become consistent for a few years yet.

I guess my memory is defined by how bad they were when they toured Australia at the end of 2000; a guarantee they wouldn’t get any more 5 Test series.

These are all valid points. On top of that Gayle was still very green, in fact he would be dropped for Adrian Griffith as the series progressed. That 00/01 Australian tour was the stuff of nightmares, and they pretty much had the same team from the OP, minus Ambrose & Gayle.

If anything, the 2018 side gel a lot better as a team

 

[quincywagstaff]

As to the current lineup, as others have said they are still very weak in the batting but there are good signs there. The controversial move to make Jason Holder captain I think is being justified as I sense there is a stronger team ethos amongst the group under his leadership then there has been under any West Indies side for a couple of decades. Still a way to go though.

As to whether this is a ‘false dawn’, have the Windies had any of those (let alone a real one) since 2000? Under Gayle at the end of last decade they did OK for a while but I don’t think you could say that the Windies have even shown much promise of being a good Test side this century.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

These are all valid points. On top of that Gayle was still very green, in fact he would be dropped for Adrian Griffith as the series progressed. That 00/01 Australian tour was the stuff of nightmares, and they pretty much had the same team from the OP, minus Ambrose & Gayle.

If anything, the 2018 side gel a lot better as a team

That 2000/01 team, did do the heroics of 98/99 - and were more than acceptable in 1996/97 losing 3-2 in Aus.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

As to the current lineup, as others have said they are still very weak in the batting but there are good signs there. The controversial move to make Jason Holder captain I think is being justified as I sense there is a stronger team ethos amongst the group under his leadership then there has been under any West Indies side for a couple of decades. Still a way to go though.

As to whether this is a ‘false dawn’, have the Windies had any of those (let alone a real one) since 2000? Under Gayle at the end of last decade they did OK for a while but I don’t think you could say that the Windies have even shown much promise of being a good Test side this century.

It is impossible to rate them highly with this batting crud they continue to dish up. Holder is regularly their top scorer in an innings. Regularly.

Their top and middle order batting just falls over when put under pressure (Wagner's bouncers), skill or tricky pitches.