Hyped English batsman in county cricket

[S.Kennedy]

That makes absolutely no sense. Unless I'm mistaken, players don't get promoted to division 1 teams when they start performing. You can have strong and weak players in each time in either division. Division 1 might be slightly higher standard but it's not like every single player in Division 1 is better than every single player in division 2.

They get poached!

Witness the exodus from Durham moving from division one to division two, Stoneman and Borthwick (to Surrey), Onions and Jennings (to Lancashire) Paul Coughlin (to Notts).

Sam Northeast recently (Kent to Hampshire). You go back into history and there was Notts poaching everybody from all of the division two Midlander sides, Stuart Broad, James Taylor and Graeme Swann.

 

[Starfighter]

Piyush Chawla, largely a has-been in Indian cricket, has Sobersque performances in county cricket (itworksbothways)

Five matches being such a massive sample size, and five years ago too when your second phrase was less true.


And don't forget the Jeetan Patel effect; one or two certain players just do well in CC for no obvious reason.

 

[Senile Sentry]

Five matches being such a massive sample size, and five years ago too when your second phrase was less true.


And don't forget the Jeetan Patel effect; one or two certain players just do well in CC for no obvious reason.

Andre Adams being another example who was strictly mediocre for NZ but found gainful employment in county cricket. There must be many others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I remember that for a while during the turn of the millennium, Shield matches were hailed as superior to even a few international bilaterals. The reason being simply the dominance of the Australian international team. England never really had a prolonged period anywhere similar to what Australia (or even India to a lesser extent) had. I guess the talent dilution from influx of Kolpak and migrations have some effect in it.

 

[Victor Ian]

Australia > County Cricket as a whole

Is this still true?

 

[SeamUp]

They get poached!

Witness the exodus from Durham moving from division one to division two, Stoneman and Borthwick (to Surrey), Onions and Jennings (to Lancashire) Paul Coughlin (to Notts).

Sam Northeast recently (Kent to Hampshire). You go back into history and there was Notts poaching everybody from all of the division two Midlander sides, Stuart Broad, James Taylor and Graeme Swann.

That is what has pissed me off about Notts.

Taylor, Broad and Gurney are all Notts/Nottm lads but had to go through a lesser county in Leicestershire's academy.

Footitt also from Notts was thrown out quickly or not given an opportunity.

Older successes are like Patel, Ball, Fletcher

But the newbies Libby, Root, Moores, Wood need to step up.

Noticed they have a very strong link to the Devon, Plymouth area and it probably started with Chris Read so they get quite a few youngsters in their academy from the area. Libby is best recent example.

 

[Senile Sentry]

I always figured that England not having batsmen that average over 50 was largely due to England being a tougher place to bat, due to the swing and seam being more available on average. Same reason they have some pedestrian fast bowlers with decent figures, and good fast bowlers (eg. Broad and Anderson) with prolific figures.

Debatable.

Since 2000, below are the English batsmen who have averaged over 50 in test cricket in the following countries (min 500 runs, preceding number denotes overall position in the list ranked by average):

England
5. Joe Root - 59.4
6. G Thorpe - 56.3
10. KP - 52.75
11. M Trescothick - 51
13. Butcher - 50

India
14. Joe Root - 51.45
15. A Cook - 51.35

Australia
3. M Vaughan - 63.3 (that freak series in 2002-03)

South Africa
13. A Strauss (51.6)

As you can see, very few English batsmen have averaged over 50 even outside England (in the top 3 other countries). Even in England, only just 1 player makes it to the top 5 in terms of averages. Even those who made it are pretty much down the pecking order in terms of averages. For comparison purposes I enumerate below the respective number of batsmen in various top countries for other teams below

Batsmen		In Ind	In Aus	In SA	In Eng
Indian		6	2	2	2
Australian	2	11	3	0
Safrican	2	1	5	3
English		2	1	1	5

 

[BoyBrumby]

Owais Shah is about the only player I can think of who vaguely fits the criteria who hasn't been mentioned.

One can sort of see why he had a little hype bubble: Middlesex player, first XI debut when barely out of short trousers, classic technique that was very easy on the eye, put up good figures and looked good doing it.

 

[Athlai]

Is this still true?

Yes. But less true than it used to be. Is Australian domestic cricket better than the elite SA and Indian stuff? Dunno

 

[Victor Ian]

Debatable.

Since 2000, below are the English batsmen who have averaged over 50 in test cricket in the following countries (min 500 runs, preceding number denotes overall position in the list ranked by average):

England
5. Joe Root - 59.4
6. G Thorpe - 56.3
10. KP - 52.75
11. M Trescothick - 51
13. Butcher - 50

India
14. Joe Root - 51.45
15. A Cook - 51.35

Australia
3. M Vaughan - 63.3 (that freak series in 2002-03)

South Africa
13. A Strauss (51.6)

As you can see, very few English batsmen have averaged over 50 even outside England (in the top 3 other countries). Even in England, only just 1 player makes it to the top 5 in terms of averages. Even those who made it are pretty much down the pecking order in terms of averages. For comparison purposes I enumerate below the respective number of batsmen in various top countries for other teams below

Batsmen		In Ind	In Aus	In SA	In Eng
Indian		6	2	2	2
Australian	2	11	3	0
Safrican	2	1	5	3
English		2	1	1	5

Is the 2000 date a debut date? Because Steve Waugh kicked arse in the 4 tests he played in England 2001 and averaged 107. I was just surprised that no Aussie has averaged over 50 in England. Mark Waugh was also pretty good averaging 86. Those were great days.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Whenever I've watched it on stream it just looks like the proverbial ''one man and his dog'' and seems to be treated by everybody like a series of trial sessions for the test team. There are far bigger crowds in the English northern leagues (I'm being serious there as if the weather is nice, league crowds can be reasonable).

 

[Senile Sentry]

Is the 2000 date a debut date? Because Steve Waugh kicked arse in the 4 tests he played in England 2001 and averaged 107. I was just surprised that no Aussie has averaged over 50 in England. Mark Waugh was also pretty good averaging 86. Those were great days.

min 500 runs

 

[TheJediBrah]

Debatable.

Since 2000, below are the English batsmen who have averaged over 50 in test cricket in the following countries (min 500 runs, preceding number denotes overall position in the list ranked by average):

England
5. Joe Root - 59.4
6. G Thorpe - 56.3
10. KP - 52.75
11. M Trescothick - 51
13. Butcher - 50

India
14. Joe Root - 51.45
15. A Cook - 51.35

Australia
3. M Vaughan - 63.3 (that freak series in 2002-03)

South Africa
13. A Strauss (51.6)

As you can see, very few English batsmen have averaged over 50 even outside England (in the top 3 other countries). Even in England, only just 1 player makes it to the top 5 in terms of averages. Even those who made it are pretty much down the pecking order in terms of averages. For comparison purposes I enumerate below the respective number of batsmen in various top countries for other teams below

Batsmen		In Ind	In Aus	In SA	In Eng
Indian		6	2	2	2
Australian	2	11	3	0
Safrican	2	1	5	3
English		2	1	1	5

Nah not really debatable, just flat out wrong. If 5 English players average 50 in England than it's clearly not because they have to bat in English conditions a lot.

 

[Burgey]

Debatable.

Since 2000, below are the English batsmen who have averaged over 50 in test cricket in the following countries (min 500 runs, preceding number denotes overall position in the list ranked by average):

England
5. Joe Root - 59.4
6. G Thorpe - 56.3
10. KP - 52.75
11. M Trescothick - 51
13. Butcher - 50

India
14. Joe Root - 51.45
15. A Cook - 51.35

Australia
3. M Vaughan - 63.3 (that freak series in 2002-03)

South Africa
13. A Strauss (51.6)

As you can see, very few English batsmen have averaged over 50 even outside England (in the top 3 other countries). Even in England, only just 1 player makes it to the top 5 in terms of averages. Even those who made it are pretty much down the pecking order in terms of averages. For comparison purposes I enumerate below the respective number of batsmen in various top countries for other teams below

Batsmen		In Ind	In Aus	In SA	In Eng
Indian		6	2	2	2
Australian	2	11	3	0
Safrican	2	1	5	3
English		2	1	1	5

Very few batsmen from anywhere average 50 overseas tbh.