What does Kohli need to surpass Tendulkar?

[subshakerz]

As the title suggests, there are already many who are suggesting that Kohli has it in him to be the greatest Indian batsman ever. My question is, what would that entail, at what point can we suggest that Kohli can safely claim this title?

Tendulkar's big pluses, aside from his immaculate game itself, was a terrific peak between 97 - 2002 when bowling attacks were at their peak, and overall achieved terrific consistency in two decades of play across countries and opposition.

Bearing that in mind, I can see Kohli overtaking Sachin if he can sustain his peak for another 6-8 years across countries, but I think the clincher would be 1-2 all-time great matchwinning knocks of the Lara/Laxman variety to seal the deal. This is in tests, in ODIs he may already be there.

 

[fredfertang]

I was surprised on checking their records to see that Sachin's record against England is rather better than Kohli's, because my immediate reaction was that I have more painful memories of Kohli

Perhaps it's just that the drubbings at Kohli's hands are more recent. It will be interesting to see how he goes this summer but I fear the lack of Tests in June will mean he'll be erasing the painful memories of his last visit very swiftly

But to answer the question to my mind Kohli is the better batsman, although I expect that to be a minority view

 

[harsh.ag]

Technically Sachin was better in my view, so I will have him over Kohli in tests regardless (unless Kohli makes improvements of course).

As I see it, you can put Sachin on any pitch, against any bowling attack in cricketing history and he'd fare better than Kohli overall.

Kohli's game to swing outside off is still suspect and his strong bottom hand looks ungainly when playing a few shots. Sachin could play most shots with great elegance.

 

[srbhkshk]

ODI -

- Win a world cup with his team
- Play a match winning knock in one of the knock outs
- 13-14K+ runs with 300+ matches, so that the longevity factor isn't overwhelmingly in favor of Tendulkar.

Tests -

Far more complicated, but to at least be part of the same convo -

- Correct his record in England and get his average to at least 40+.
- Get at least 2 series wins in Eng/SA/Australia with significant contributions.
- 10-12K runs at the very least with an average close to 55.

That said, he could do all that, and still might not be considered as good as Tendulkar in Tests. Tendulkar has an incredibly balanced and long career in Tests and no one apart from Bradman can be claimed distinctly better.

 

[Bolo]

In ODIs: not much. Basically just hold his results for a few years and do something in the WC.

In tests: it's basically unachievable to surpass Tendulkar in my book. He's always going to have played easier bowlers in easier conditions for a shorter career than Tendulkar. Unless he ends up on a 60+ average and performs basically everywhere he'll be comparable at best in my mind.

 

[vcs]

Don't want to talk about numbers and career achievements to be ticked off, because srbhkshk has covered that already.

Going by the "eye-test", he isn't far off Sachin in my mind when it comes to mastering the technical aspects of batsmanship. Yes, the vulnerability outside off stump is there, but Sachin had it too, and so has pretty much every batsman in history. Sachin never left as many balls outside off as someone like Dravid, Steve Waugh etc., except in the latter part of his career when he became a much less attacking batsman. He also used to get nicked off a fair bit (Damien Fleming and McGrath got him quite a few times in that fashion in the late '90s). The advantage Kohli has over Sachin is physical fitness... I think this is one of the big reasons he is able to finish games for us in ODIs whereas Sachin sometimes would fall short (he ran 100 out of the 160 he made recently on a slowish pitch). Also his recent run of effortless double centuries in Tests. It is easier to maintain concentration over long periods when you are supremely fit and you are confident that your body won't let you down.

Sachin's advantage is debuting at such a young age and scoring several iconic centuries against the great '90s bowlers while carrying the team, Kohli might never get to face a big pool of ATG bowlers when he's in his prime. That's not really his fault but still..

 

[dailycricket]

Kohli does not need to do anything extra to surpass Sachin Record. He just needs to keep consistency in his game as he has already been doing. As far as ODI century record is concerned he has already completed his 35th century and the way he is playing he will surpass the 49 century record of Sachin in next 2 years. Follow https://dailycricketnews.com for more cricket information. Thanks!

 

[Chrish]

But to answer the question to my mind Kohli is the better batsman, although I expect that to be a minority view

Possibly unconscious bias due to his recent home series against England? Tendy although scored plenty never truly dominated the series against that team in that manner. Also, Kohli being slightly more aesthetically pleasing also helps his cause I reckon.

 

[fredfertang]

Possibly unconscious bias due to his recent home series against England? Tendy although scored plenty never truly dominated the series against that team in that manner. Also, Kohli being slightly more aesthetically pleasing also helps his cause I reckon.

I'm sure there is an element of that at work - during that series short of him giving his wicket away it was impossible to see how England were ever going to get Kohli out - he reminded me of Steve Waugh in 1989, not a happy memory

 

[a massive zebra]

Possibly unconscious bias due to his recent home series against England? Tendy although scored plenty never truly dominated the series against that team in that manner. Also, Kohli being slightly more aesthetically pleasing also helps his cause I reckon.

One could argue Tendulkar never truly dominated any Test series against any team in that manner. I think it is abundantly clear that, at his best, Kohli is far more of a destructive, ruthless matchwinner than Tendulkar ever was. Tendulkar never made 500 runs in a series in his entire 24 year Test career. Kohli has exceeded 600 runs in a series three times against three different opponents, including 692 runs with four centuries in Australia in 2014/15, on pitches that would have been relatively challenging and unfamiliar to him.

 

[harsh.ag]

One could argue Tendulkar never truly dominated any Test series against any team in that manner. I think it is abundantly clear that, at his best, Kohli is far more of a destructive, ruthless matchwinner than Tendulkar ever was. Tendulkar never made 500 runs in a series in his entire 24 year Test career. Kohli has exceeded 600 runs in a series three times against three different opponents, including 692 runs with four centuries in Australia in 2014/15, on pitches that would have been relatively challenging and unfamiliar to him.

Well that's also because he played more number of 3 test series while Kohli plays more number of 4 test series.

For example, he scored 446 runs in a 3 test series vs Aus in 98, 435 runs in a 3 test series vs NZ in 99, 428 runs in a 3 test series vs Eng in 96, 403 runs in a 2 test series vs Aus in 2010,

Obviously Kohli's domination of SL in that 3 test series where he scored 600+ runs was incredible and definitely tops the list.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

The ODI game Kohli plays in is totally different to what Sachin was playing, SRT would have adapted to the modern game and done it in style. No way is Kohli near him.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Kohli's much closer to Sachin in ODIs than in tests obviously. I'd say he'd need to dominate atleast one WC to catch him. Sachin was the best batsman at 3 different WCs 15 years apart. So far, Kohli's been merely all right so far in the only tournament that really matters.

In tests, he's a long, long way behind. Sachin's longevity, amazing all round record in all conditions, and the era in which he was at his peak will probably always give him the edge (maybe unfairly, maybe not). Unless Kohli goes full Smith over the next few years.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He's already there. Unless he falls off a cliff massively he should be considered comfortably superior. In Tests it's a bit close, but limited overs they aren't even in the same ball-park.

 

[SteveNZ]

What's the name of the bias that suggests everything in the past is better than the now? The one that Neil Harvey perfectly exhibits? Because whatever the name of that, it's the one that will always ensure Sachin is widely considered better than Kohli, despite numbers suggesting otherwise.

It'll also be important what Kohli does at the twilight of his career, compared to Sachin's selfishness that clearly hurt the team in terms of clawing towards 100 international tons.

 

[morgieb]

ODI's - arguably already there. Just needs a gun WC and a few extra years at this level and he should overtake him.

Tests - a lot. Probably needs to dominate the next 5-6 years, scoring runs everywhere.

 

[Starfighter]

A ton at Lords'.

 

[Victor Ian]

How long was Sachin selfish for? I have problems reconciling him being selected but being the one called selfish. We're the selectors idiots or were there really no clear better options? Why is Tendulkar selfish but Ponting selfless when both were merely playing on to stabilize teams in transition?

 

[Gnske]

Need to fail more in the big games

 

[TheJediBrah]

How long was Sachin selfish for? I have problems reconciling him being selected but being the one called selfish. We're the selectors idiots or were there really no clear better options? Why is Tendulkar selfish but Ponting selfless when both were merely playing on to stabilize teams in transition?

I guess Tendulkar was "selfish" because he didn't reply and kept playing knowing the selectors would pick him because of who he is? The selectors do have to share some of the blame though, if his continued selection was really an issue. But you can imagine how hard it would have been to drop him, India being India, they might have literally feared for their lives.