Hashim Amla- the most misleading odi stats ever

[sunilz]

I like this logic. Using it on Australian bowlers we can say McGrath should average 17 or 18 if he didn't have to play mostly in Australia, and given how poor the record for spinners in Australia is then Warne actually averages like 10 . . .

Anyway doesn't Steve Smith average almost the same away as he does at home in Tests?

So would Ambrose and Hadlee as they average below 20 in AUS
Smith's overseas record is present in second stats.
Finger spin is difficult in AUSTRALIA not wrist spin.
However I do think mcgrath and warne's averages would be lower if they had played for any other country. It is extremely difficult to bowl in AUS

 

[ankitj]

Where did you get those figures from?

Mark Waugh averaged significantly more than 40.32 as opener.

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

Warner's looks wrong too:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

It's not just the Aussies, Tendulkar's isn't right either:

Batting records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

I brought up Mark Waugh first because I think he's often vastly underrated as an ODI player and I was looking over his profile. He wasn't quite the bowler that Jayasuria was but he certainly was a decent part time option. He was probably a better batsman than Jaya though, even if he wasn't quite as much of a pioneer.

Looking over this list it's pretty disgusting how much easier batting has become in ODIs over the last ten years. It seems like every team has multiple 45+ averaging batsmen who strike at 90+. Back in my day only the best of the best (Viv) was able to maintain such a feat over the course of their career. And he was considered a freak.

Not sure what I did wrong. Probably I had some filter on opposition. Below is the correct table.

Player	Span	Inns	Runs	Ave	SR	100	50	Avg x SR/100
RG Sharma (INDIA)	2011-2018	94	4612	54.25	91.03	15	22	49.38
HM Amla (SA)	2008-2018	157	7495	50.98	89.27	26	35	45.51
Q de Kock (SA)	2013-2018	87	3776	46.04	94.47	13	15	43.49
S Dhawan (INDIA)	2010-2018	100	4343	46.2	93.74	13	25	43.31
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1994-2012	340	15310	48.29	88.05	45	75	42.52
DA Warner (AUS)	2009-2018	103	4322	43.22	96.21	14	17	41.58
SR Watson (AUS)	2006-2013	93	3882	45.13	91.68	7	25	41.38
TM Dilshan (SL)	2008-2016	176	7367	46.04	89.08	21	34	41.01
MJ Guptill (NZ)	2009-2018	130	5238	45.94	88.27	13	28	40.55
V Sehwag (Asia/ICC/INDIA)	2001-2013	212	7518	36.49	104.7	14	35	38.21
AC Gilchrist (AUS/ICC)	1998-2008	259	9200	36.5	98.02	16	53	35.78
ML Hayden (AUS)	1993-2008	147	5892	44.3	78.7	10	33	34.86
AJ Finch (AUS)	2013-2018	84	3200	38.55	90.09	10	18	34.73
BC Lara (WI)	1992-2006	52	2166	46.08	74.71	5	15	34.43
G Gambhir (INDIA)	2003-2013	91	3367	39.61	86.48	8	21	34.25
BB McCullum (NZ)	2002-2016	107	3363	32.97	102.7	4	19	33.87
ME Waugh (AUS)	1993-2002	141	5729	44.06	76.74	15	32	33.81
IR Bell (ENG)	2004-2015	76	2932	42.49	79.5	3	21	33.78
CH Gayle (ICC/WI)	2000-2017	250	9119	38.97	86.4	22	47	33.67
PR Stirling (IRE)	2010-2018	79	2812	35.59	92.46	6	14	32.91

 

[TheJediBrah]

So would Ambrose and Hadlee as they average below 20 in AUS
Smith's overseas record is present in second stats.
Finger spin is difficult in AUSTRALIA not wrist spin.
However I do think mcgrath and warne's averages would be lower if they had played for any other country. It is extremely difficult to bowl in AUS

There's no reason to think this, or evidence to support it

edit: maybe compare to Asia, where a lot of the time all a finger spinner has to do is bowl in the right areas and the pitch will get him the wickets

Not sure what I did wrong. Probably I had some filter on opposition. Below is the correct table.

Who would have thought Chris Gayle had a lower Strike Rate than Tendulkar, Watson, Gambhir, Dilshan and Amla

 

[a massive zebra]

There's no reason to think this, or evidence to support it

Except that Australia has had four of the most successful wrist spinners ever (Grimmett, O'Reilly, Benaud, Warne) and none of the most successful finger spinners. Trumble, Mallett and Lyon are probably their best ever finger spinners, but few people would place these guys among the top handful of finger spinners in the history of the game. Fuerthermore, many recent world class finger spinners have a terrible record in Australia. For example, Swann averages 53, Ashwin 55, Harbhajan 73.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Except that Australia has had four of the most successful wrist spinners ever (Grimmett, O'Reilly, Benaud, Warne) and none of the most successful finger spinners. Trumble, Mallett and Lyon are probably their best ever finger spinners, but few people would place these guys among the top handful of finger spinners in the history of the game. Fuerthermore, many recent world class finger spinners have a terrible record in Australia. For example, Swann averages 53, Ashwin 55, Harbhajan 73.

Meaningless. Many recent leg-spinners have just as terrible records in Australia. It may be slightly worse for finger spinners, given that in Australian conditions as a spinner you actually have to do something with the ball to take wickets (rather than just do a Herath/Jadeja and wait for one to grip off the pitch or slide straight).

But, no. Spinners in general have horrible records in Australia over the last few decades, wrist spinners and finger spinners. Just off the top of my head (I could be wrong) but the only relatively successful ones have been Warne, MacGill & Lyon, and Kumble & Saqlain (and i really mean relatively, IIRC Kumble and Saqlain both had much worse stats in Australia than their overall careers)

edit: Feel free to correct me on my stats, I did no research and was just going off memory.

 

[Daemon]

Meaningless. Many recent leg-spinners have just as terrible records in Australia. It may be slightly worse for finger spinners, given that in Australian conditions as a spinner you actually have to do something with the ball to take wickets (rather than just do a Herath/Jadeja and wait for one to grip off the pitch or slide straight).

But, no. Spinners in general have horrible records in Australia over the last few decades, wrist spinners and finger spinners. Just off the top of my head (I could be wrong) but the only relatively successful ones have been Warne, MacGill & Lyon, and Kumble & Saqlain (and i really mean relatively, IIRC Kumble and Saqlain both had much worse stats in Australia than their overall careers)

edit: Feel free to correct me on my stats, I did no research and was just going off memory.

Nah bro. MacGill actually averaged 19 in Aus and 49 away, Kumble averaged 22 in Aus and much more elsewhere, Saqlain actually averaged 10 lower in Australia compared to everywhere else and I'm just making up these statistics.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Nah bro. MacGill actually averaged 19 in Aus and 49 away, Kumble averaged 22 in Aus and much more elsewhere, Saqlain actually averaged 10 lower in Australia compared to everywhere else and I'm just making up these statistics.

That's just a stupid post from you

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

So Rohit Sharma is the greatest ODI opening batsman ever?

 

[TheJediBrah]

So Rohit Sharma is the greatest ODI opening batsman ever?

why not?

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

why not?

Kool, just checking.

 

[Starfighter]

edit: Feel free to correct me on my stats, I did no research and was just going off memory.

Here you go:

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo

5 or more wickets since 1990

 

[TheJediBrah]

Interesting that all the best ones who've played more than a few games are Australian, I figure that's partly because they didn't have to bowl to Australian batsmen.

Mushtaq Ahmed and Saqlain both average early 30s, Kumble 37, Herath 33 from 3 games. Everyone else with any significant games average well over 40.

Pretty much exactly what I thought.

 

[stephen]

Not sure what I did wrong. Probably I had some filter on opposition. Below is the correct table.

Player	Span	Inns	Runs	Ave	SR	100	50	Avg x SR/100
RG Sharma (INDIA)	2011-2018	94	4612	54.25	91.03	15	22	49.38
HM Amla (SA)	2008-2018	157	7495	50.98	89.27	26	35	45.51
Q de Kock (SA)	2013-2018	87	3776	46.04	94.47	13	15	43.49
S Dhawan (INDIA)	2010-2018	100	4343	46.2	93.74	13	25	43.31
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1994-2012	340	15310	48.29	88.05	45	75	42.52
DA Warner (AUS)	2009-2018	103	4322	43.22	96.21	14	17	41.58
SR Watson (AUS)	2006-2013	93	3882	45.13	91.68	7	25	41.38
TM Dilshan (SL)	2008-2016	176	7367	46.04	89.08	21	34	41.01
MJ Guptill (NZ)	2009-2018	130	5238	45.94	88.27	13	28	40.55
V Sehwag (Asia/ICC/INDIA)	2001-2013	212	7518	36.49	104.7	14	35	38.21
AC Gilchrist (AUS/ICC)	1998-2008	259	9200	36.5	98.02	16	53	35.78
ML Hayden (AUS)	1993-2008	147	5892	44.3	78.7	10	33	34.86
AJ Finch (AUS)	2013-2018	84	3200	38.55	90.09	10	18	34.73
BC Lara (WI)	1992-2006	52	2166	46.08	74.71	5	15	34.43
G Gambhir (INDIA)	2003-2013	91	3367	39.61	86.48	8	21	34.25
BB McCullum (NZ)	2002-2016	107	3363	32.97	102.7	4	19	33.87
ME Waugh (AUS)	1993-2002	141	5729	44.06	76.74	15	32	33.81
IR Bell (ENG)	2004-2015	76	2932	42.49	79.5	3	21	33.78
CH Gayle (ICC/WI)	2000-2017	250	9119	38.97	86.4	22	47	33.67
PR Stirling (IRE)	2010-2018	79	2812	35.59	92.46	6	14	32.91

Those figures look better.

I highly rate all of those guys who debuted in the 90s and downgrade the records of those who debuted in 2008 or later, given how much the game favours batsmen these days.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

What if Lara continued to be an opener ?

 

[sunilz]

Today's innings has got to be one of the most selfish century ever. At par with Tendulkar's 100th 100 against Bangladesh in Asia cup. Reminds me of Amla's another near 100 innings against Pakistan which resulted in his team's loss.
Full Scorecard of South Africa vs Pakistan 2nd ODI 2013 - Score Report | ESPNcricinfo.com

 

[Furball]

Those figures look better.

I highly rate all of those guys who debuted in the 90s and downgrade the records of those who debuted in 2008 or later, given how much the game favours batsmen these days.

The table doesn't properly consider strike rate. A strike rate of 88 over the span of Tendulkar's career is not the same as someone like Guptil.

Tendulkar was an absolute freak as an ODI opener.

 

[stephen]

The table doesn't properly consider strike rate. A strike rate of 88 over the span of Tendulkar's career is not the same as someone like Guptil.

Tendulkar was an absolute freak as an ODI opener.

Yeah he's basically striking at the same rate as the very best strikers in history while averaging the same as the highest averaging openers in history. Along with Viv he's in the first two batsmen picked in an ATXI.

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Akram
Sachin
Viv
Dhoni

Locks for All-Time ODI 11

may be Kapil , Kohli and ABDV too

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Akram
Sachin
Viv
Dhoni

Locks for All-Time ODI 11

may be Kapil , Kohli and ABDV too

I wouldn't call Dhoni a lock. It is very close between Gilchrist, Dhoni, Buttler, and De Kock (with Sanga just outside that group) imo

 

[stephen]

Dhoni is nowhere near a lock, particularly outside the subcontinent.