Bits and pieces players

[ankitj]

Hardik Pandya is the latest bits and pieces player. What bugs me about them is that they have no well defined role but still block a spot in the XI.

 

[the big bambino]

5th (or better) best bowler in the country? I've never heard him rated so highly as a bowler alone

I don't believe I said that. Behind Trueman, Statham, Tyson, Laker, Lock and possibly Wardle. However he got into the ream bcos his bowling was test class, he could bat, had a fighting character and could field better than all of them save Lock. He had a longer career than Tyson and Wardle and I think he was better than Lock when comparing bowlers on reflection. I can see why he was a regular even in a side that had so many wonderful players.

 

[the big bambino]

Probably Bruce Yardley started out as such a player, whose off spin developed to an extent he could be remembered as a specialist for that skill alone.

 

[Bolo]

I think Tiger Lance is the poster child for this in South African test history... Still was in the XI in one of our greatest series - 69/70 vs Australia. (Only 12 tests, but because we refused to play India and WI, we had so few tests in that period...)

Klusener too as a test player, over-all... Started out picked as a front line bowler bowling high 140's, who destroyed India at Eden Gardens, but finished with a test bowling average of 38. Batting was arguably his weaker test suit, but his overall average of 33 isn't too bad - given the era where Rhodes and Cronje were test stalwarts with averages not much better, but not really good enough to call him a batting all-rounder (to be fair he was often batting 8 or 9)...

I'm not a fan of klusener as a test player, and his record runs pretty close to norounder status. Still, I'd be pretty tempted to include him ahead of bavuma in the current setup for his admittedly (career wise) subpar bowling, despite the fact I reckon bavuma us the better bat.

 

[Himannv]

Ian Harvey

 

[stephen]

I think Australia doesn't historically play bits and pieces cricketers in tests for a few reasons. We have pitches that lens themselves to specialists. That is, being quick is almost a prerequisite for being successful as a fast bowler. Taking up a top six batting spot is usually reserved for genuine batsmen.

Which is why Mitch Marsh cops so much crap in the media. Australians don't really like seeing guys in our top 6 with a batting average that starts with a "3".

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ian Harvey

Mate that's the 44th greatest ODI player of all time you're talking about. Show some respect.

 

[Bolo]

I think Australia doesn't historically play bits and pieces cricketers in tests for a few reasons. We have pitches that lens themselves to specialists. That is, being quick is almost a prerequisite for being successful as a fast bowler. Taking up a top six batting spot is usually reserved for genuine batsmen.

Which is why Mitch Marsh cops so much crap in the media. Australians don't really like seeing guys in our top 6 with a batting average that starts with a "3".

Mitchell Marsh cops so much crap because he has a batting average that starts with a 2 and a bowling average that starts with a 4. He hasn't been good enough to date, especially when talking about Australia- the bowlers can always bat a bit. Australia are playing him on potential, not past performances

 

[Dan]

Ian Harvey

Kade >>

 

[Himannv]

Australians don't really like seeing guys in our top 6 with a batting average that starts with a "3".

Keith Miller batted in the top 6 and probably makes your ATG side despite having a batting average in the 30's.

 

[Flametree]

Victor Trumper also.

Australia have been lucky for almost half a century with had top order batsmen who could bowl more than usefully, so in the absence of an obvious allrounder, they've generally been able to pick a 6-1-4 team pattern. Doug Walters, Greg Chappell, Greg Matthews briefly, then Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Michael Bevan, with occasional moments from tje likes of Border, Lehmann, Katich, and Clarke. Even then Steve Waugh was pretty much a bits and pieces cricketer for a year or two and they still tried Peter Taylor and Simon O'Donnell. Shane Watson recently "did a job" - his batting average being not quite good enough was more than made up for by his bowling allowing Johnson in particular to bowl short spells...

I know at the time of the '81 Ashes some felt that Botham was able to flog tiring bowlers around so successfully in part because there was no 5th bowling option in that squad to give Lillee, Lawson and Alderman a breather.

 

[the big bambino]

Don't necessarily have to be quick as a prerequisite in Aus imo. Abbott, Philander, Pollock, McGrath, Clark, Broad (tour before this one) to name some. Though I do think at least one of your bowlers should have real speed, but that would be desirable anywhere really.

I've tried to forget 1981 but I kind of remember we failed to utlilise our spinner, Bright. He couldn't have done any worse.

 

[watson]

Graeme Beard was Australia’s worst b n’ p player of all time I reckon.

Moeen Ali is interesting as he seems a very talented and attactive batsman because of his timing. England may get more value from Moeen if they let him concentrate on his batting and perhaps compete for the No.6 spot as a specialist batsman.

 

[fredfertang]

Graeme Beard was Australia’s worst b n’ p player of all time I reckon.

I thought we English had a monopoly on these, but that's a decent shout

 

[S.Kennedy]

Do Australia even produce bona fide allrounders? Symonds a bit when he wasn't on the piss unless you include bowlers like Warne, Johnson and Cummins who could swing the bat a bit. Seems you have to go back to Alan Davidson or Keith Miller.

 

[Tom Flint]

That england teams period between 2004-about 2007 I think Flintoff probably was in the top 3 bowlers behind Jones and Hoggard and better than harmison. Bowling at around 90+ swinging the ball in English conditions I'd say he would have got into the team on bowling alone.
During this period i think his batting actually dipped and was coming in at number 8.

 

[Tom Flint]

When you take the quality of his fielding into account I'd say collingwood was a bits and pieces player. Great guy very good bat but if he couldn't bowl a few handy economical overseas now and then and wasn't an atg fielder then his place in the team wouldn't be certain. Surprised no one had mentioned him before

 

[JRC67]

Do Australia even produce bona fide allrounders? Symonds a bit when he wasn't on the piss unless you include bowlers like Warne, Johnson and Cummins who could swing the bat a bit. Seems you have to go back to Alan Davidson or Keith Miller.

I guess if a true all rounder is one who is in the side as a batsman and bowler there have been few who managed it for their whole career. Quite a few who would have been for 4 or 5 years. Last few years of Botham would probably qualify as a bits and pieces cricketer.

You're probably right about Australia, historically they've always had a couple of batsmen who could turn their arm over. Having Warne for so long, who bowled a lot of overs and was economical even when not taking wickets, also freed them up to not really need a fifth bowler. The West Indes only really had Sobers in the modern era, but there best team could rely on Gomes or Richards for a few tight overs.

 

[JRC67]

When you take the quality of his fielding into account I'd say collingwood was a bits and pieces player. Great guy very good bat but if he couldn't bowl a few handy economical overseas now and then and wasn't an atg fielder then his place in the team wouldn't be certain. Surprised no one had mentioned him before

Collingwood could hold his place as a batsman, his bowling was a useful bonus. His fielding may have played a part in his initial selection and was worth 15 to 20 runs a test.

 

[fredfertang]

When you take the quality of his fielding into account I'd say collingwood was a bits and pieces player. Great guy very good bat but if he couldn't bowl a few handy economical overseas now and then and wasn't an atg fielder then his place in the team wouldn't be certain. Surprised no one had mentioned him before

Nah - Colly was a proper batsman