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Thread: The best after the Don? CW ranked 25 contenders, here is the countdown thread

  1. #31
    International Regular a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flametree View Post
    Am I right in thinking that Javed was never lbw in a home test in his entire career? I seem to recall that being a thing... and that's partly why I put him a level below the likes of Border or Waugh.
    No. He was dismissed LBW in a home test quite a few times.

    lbw JR Ratnayeke 40 2 v Sri Lanka Sialkot 27 Oct 1985 Test # 1027
    lbw ALF de Mel 63 2 v Sri Lanka Karachi 7 Nov 1985 Test # 1028
    lbw JE Emburey 4 2 v England Karachi 16 Dec 1987 Test # 1086
    lbw BA Reid 107 3 v Australia Faisalabad 23 Sep 1988 Test # 1105
    lbw M Prabhakar 13 2 v India Faisalabad 23 Nov 1989 Test # 1128
    lbw DK Morrison 27 2 v New Zealand Karachi 10 Oct 1990 Test # 1151
    lbw EA Brandes 70 1 v Zimbabwe Karachi 1 Dec 1993 Test # 1237
    lbw DH Brain 31 1 v Zimbabwe Lahore 16 Dec 1993 Test # 1241
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  2. #32
    State Vice-Captain Flametree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by a massive zebra View Post
    No. He was dismissed LBW in a home test quite a few times.

    lbw JR Ratnayeke 40 2 v Sri Lanka Sialkot 27 Oct 1985 Test # 1027
    lbw ALF de Mel 63 2 v Sri Lanka Karachi 7 Nov 1985 Test # 1028
    lbw JE Emburey 4 2 v England Karachi 16 Dec 1987 Test # 1086
    lbw BA Reid 107 3 v Australia Faisalabad 23 Sep 1988 Test # 1105
    lbw M Prabhakar 13 2 v India Faisalabad 23 Nov 1989 Test # 1128
    lbw DK Morrison 27 2 v New Zealand Karachi 10 Oct 1990 Test # 1151
    lbw EA Brandes 70 1 v Zimbabwe Karachi 1 Dec 1993 Test # 1237
    lbw DH Brain 31 1 v Zimbabwe Lahore 16 Dec 1993 Test # 1241

    ok, thanks for that - don't know where I got that piece of non-information from...

  3. #33
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Think it was a bit of an urban myth going around about him in the 80s and 90s.

  4. #34
    International Coach weldone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flametree View Post
    ok, thanks for that - don't know where I got that piece of non-information from...
    Dennis Lillee sounds like a possible source for such rumors.
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  5. #35
    Cricketer Of The Year mr_mister's Avatar
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    #18


    Jacques Kallis (207 points) FC average of 51.10, FC H.S of 224. 62 FC centuries






    With a strike-rate only slightly higher than Dravids, but a big bulking frame way larger than him, you'd probably have expected Kallis to be more of an aggressive batsman. He's often criticised as a red-inker on here, as well being called boring or not adapting his game to changing situations. But he looked awesome when he played shots, his cover drive especially. The man scored 45 test centuries, second only to the great Sachin.

    Taking his nearly 300 wickets out of the equation, you're still left with an absolute monumental cricketing career, with an awesome test aggregate and average. There's not much more to say about him. He batted slow but he batted with determination. In test cricket you can't ask for much more.
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  6. #36
    Cricketer Of The Year mr_mister's Avatar
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    #17

    Herbert Sutcliffe (230 points) FC average of 52.02, FC H.S of 313. 151 FC centuries






    Such an interesting player to analyse and such a fantastic player himself. His batting average never fell below 60 in tests, yet he never even scored a test double century. He was so consistently good at getting his country off to a good start with his long term partner Jack Hobbs. He remained largely in Hobbs shadow first, and then later Hammond's shadow. His last name not beginning with H probably contributed just a teeny bit in his legacy not being as strong as the other 3 great english bats of the inter-war era amongst cricket tragics, which is pretty unfair.

    It has also been written that he might not have been able to stand up to true pace, of which most countries except his own lacked during the inter-war period. His domestic average which is considerably lower than his test average might be evidence of this, or maybe it's just evidence he brought his A game when it mattered most.


    He still had to be able to handle Mailey, Grimmett and O'Reilly however and a test average of 66 against Australia is proof he was pretty competent at that. Being able to play spin with ease isn't something all openers can make a claim to. He didn't have the charisma of Hobbs, but he maybe had more stamina and patience than anyone bar Bradman.
    Last edited by harsh.ag; 06-01-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  7. #37
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
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    My first reaction was that Kallis is massively underrated in this exercise. But just checked that I ranked him only 2 spots higher. Guess that's the kind of cricketer he is. We think we rate him much higher but we don't actually.
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  8. #38
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    My first reaction was that Kallis is massively underrated in this exercise. But just checked that I ranked him only 2 spots higher. Guess that's the kind of cricketer he is. We think we rate him much higher but we don't actually.
    Or it a more a case that here he's been pitted against the greatest bats of all time in an exercise that doesn't factor his 300 test wickets?

    Add his bowling and there's a good argument he gets in the top 5 out of this lot in terms of greatest cricketers.
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  9. #39
    Cricketer Of The Year The Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    #17

    Herbert Sutcliffe (230 points) FC average of 52.02, FC H.S of 313. 151 FC centuries






    Such an interesting player to analyse and such a fantastic player himself. His batting average never fell below 60 in tests, yet he never even scored a test double century. He was so consistently good at getting his country off to a good start with his long term partner Jack Hobbs. He remained largely in Hobbs shadow first, and then later Hammond's shadow. His last name not beginning with H probably contributed just a teeny bit in his legacy not being as strong as the other 3 great english bats of the inter-war era amongst cricket tragics, which is pretty unfair.

    It has also been written that he might not have been able to stand up to true pace, of which most countries except his own lacked during the inter-war period. His domestic average which is considerably lower than his test average might be evidence of this, or maybe it's just evidence he brought his A game when it mattered most.


    He still had to be able to handle Mailey, Grimmett and O'Reilly however and a test average of 66 against Australia is proof he was pretty competent at that. Being able to play spin with ease isn't something all openers can make a claim to. He didn't have the charisma of Hobbs, but he maybe had more stamina and patience than anyone bar Bradman.
    That's not a picture of Herbert Sutcliffe.
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  10. #40
    International Captain Himannv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sean View Post
    That's not a picture of Herbert Sutcliffe.
    Looks like it's a picture of this guy: Billy Sutcliffe | England Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo
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  11. #41
    Cricketer Of The Year mr_mister's Avatar
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    Lol. My bad. Will edit that later

  12. #42
    International Debutant Coronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Or it a more a case that here he's been pitted against the greatest bats of all time in an exercise that doesn't factor his 300 test wickets?

    Add his bowling and there's a good argument he gets in the top 5 out of this lot in terms of greatest cricketers.
    Add in his bowling and surely he's top 3 behind Bradman and Sobers?
    ATG Test XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. S.R Tendulkar 5. W.R Hammond 6. G.S Sobers 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.J Procter 9. M.D Marshall 10. S.K Warne 11. G.D McGrath

  13. #43
    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Add in his bowling and surely he's top 3 behind Bradman and Sobers?
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Add in his bowling and surely he's top 3 behind Bradman and Sobers?
    As well as his catching - surely top 3.

  15. #45
    International Regular a massive zebra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_mister View Post
    His last name not beginning with H probably contributed just a teeny bit in his legacy not being as strong as the other 3 great english bats of the inter-war era amongst cricket tragics
    Mr Sutcliffe was/is not considered among the very greatest batsmen despite considerable statistical evidence to the contrary, but personally I think your reasoning above is nonsense.

    Sutcliffe was hardly the most elegant or exciting player in history. A steady accumulator with great patience and a watertight defence, he made copious use of an angled bat and seldom played in the region between point and mid-on — the strokes of grace and grandeur that elevated cricket to visual delight and stimulated poetic paeans from the likes of Neville Cardus. He played in possibly the highest scoring era ever with very few all time great fast bowlers, made extensive use of his pads at a time when the ball had to pitch in line with the stumps in order for an LBW to be given, and never made any gargantuan scores in Tests.

    Hobbs proved himself pre war (a much tougher era for batsmen), was a complete batsman who played all the classical shots, and had a fifth gear which he was able to use to take quality attacks apart.
    Last edited by a massive zebra; 05-01-2018 at 06:18 AM.
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