The Steven Smith Question

[Pap Finn Keighl]

I rate Smith's peak higher than Ponting's peak though. Ponting's peak coincided with the worst fast bowling stocks and flattest pitched in world cricket in my lifetime. Smith's peak has coincided with extremely good fast bowling - Rabada/Philander, Broad/Anderson, Bumrah, Boult/Southee. That's almost as good as the 90s bowling attacks.

Ponting , Dravid , Kallis and Sanga peaked in easiest batting era.

 

[Flem274*]

fast becoming the best batsman of my lifetime. with other atgs i always felt teams with a decent attack had a good chance on nabbing them early at home, but steve smith is one of the few who shows up on your doorstep and you're not really sure how to get him out.

sachin, abdv and chanderpaul the others with an air of imperviousness to them. even with ponting everyone knew the area and that he could be gotten before reaching 30, kallis could be roughed up if you chased him with the ball, sangakkara hates a left arm swing bowler and kohli likes to chase channel bowling with his bat but i look at smith and shrug my shoulders.

matt henry jagging it both ways back of a length in a random odi was one of the few times i've seen him without a clue, so i guess make sure you play australia at eden park in summer humidity?

 

[Pap Finn Keighl]

By comparison Ponting had 9239 runs @ 59.99 after 107 tests after which he was almost universally hailed as the best Australian bat since Bradman, so there's a way to go for Smith still. Smith has 6130 runs @ 65.91 in 60 tests since his return to the test side as a batsman. Similar or better such runs include Ponting for 69 tests 1 Jan 2001 to 1 Dec 2006 where he had 6829 @ 66.95. Sangakarra had a run of 74 tests between 1 Jan 2006 to 6 Aug 2014 where he had 8085 @ 67.37!!. Tendulkar had 6073 @ 63.92 in 65 tests between April 1993 and Feb 2002. These are the best runs I could find of some certified ATG players so Smith certainly is on the verge of ATG status, if we use this is a measure. As illustrated by these players though, end of career averages often pale in comparison to averages during peak periods.

Min 20 tests

Ponting peak
5 X 60+ AVG
15 X 50+ AVG

Sanga peak
2 X 60+
14 X 50+

Smith ( since 2013)
3 X 60+
8 X 50 +

Sachin peak
1 X 60+
7 X 50+

Ponting numbers least impressive , especially considering team strength.

 

[Victor Ian]

I don't get what that is showing. Is it how many streaks of 20 tests had averages over 60 and 50?

 

[SteveNZ]

I'm not sure of the particular name of the bias, but it seems to be heavily in play with comparing Smith with players of yesteryear. Sort of like a 'everything was better in my day' sort of Neil Harvey crossed with the romanticism of the past kinda thing.

Smith is just an ATG, best in the world now, 2nd best Australian batsman of all time by every metric except seemingly some people's rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Daemon]

I rate Smith's peak higher than Ponting's peak though. Ponting's peak coincided with the worst fast bowling stocks and flattest pitched in world cricket in my lifetime. Smith's peak has coincided with extremely good fast bowling - Rabada/Philander, Broad/Anderson, Bumrah, Boult/Southee. That's almost as good as the 90s bowling attacks.

He’s never played Bumrah but yeah, he’s also scored runs in India when most others looked clueless against spin.

Batting’s definitely been tougher than the 00’s.

 

[h_hurricane]

He’s never played Bumrah but yeah, he’s also scored runs in India when most others looked clueless against spin.

Batting’s definitely been tougher than the 00’s.

I also think batting in a weaker team is tougher than that in an ATG batting line up where you know that even if you fail there are others to make up.

 

[trundler]

I'm not sure of the particular name of the bias, but it seems to be heavily in play with comparing Smith with players of yesteryear. Sort of like a 'everything was better in my day' sort of Neil Harvey crossed with the romanticism of the past kinda thing.

Smith is just an ATG, best in the world now, 2nd best Australian batsman of all time by every metric except seemingly some people's rose-tinted glasses.

Nostalgia

 

[SteveNZ]

Nostalgia

I googled it, it's rosy retrospection.

 

[marc71178]

I don't get what that is showing. Is it how many streaks of 20 tests had averages over 60 and 50?

He likes to make up weird stats to back up his bull**** opinions. In this one he shows Ponting to have more of bit of the metrics he’s chosen but then decides that to be the least impressive of all of them...

 

[harsh.ag]

One of the great missed opportunities - Bumrah vs Smith. Hope they are both still near their current standard when they meet next.

 

[Daemon]

I also think batting in a weaker team is tougher than that in an ATG batting line up where you know that even if you fail there are others to make up.

Yeah. Having the opposition deflated is always good for scoring runs.

Don't think Smith has ever been part of a good batting lineup since his resurgence, with the exception of some of those home series where even MMarsh batted like a God.

 

[Malcolm]

As a specialist batsman, Smith averages 65 in 60 matches over 5 years. Ponting in a similar 5 year period circa '02-'06 averaged 72.
I'd rate Smith's peak on par with Ponting's despite averaging 7 runs lesser due to higher quality attacks he faced. Ponting has played an additional 11 years and done well. I'd rank him above Ponting if he can average 65+ for the next 3-4 years or so.
Right now, it is premature to say, Smith has surpassed the greats of the past like Lara, Ponting, et al. But he has a very good chance to be the second-best batsman of all time.

 

[h_hurricane]

One of the great missed opportunities - Bumrah vs Smith. Hope they are both still near their current standard when they meet next.

This could be December 2020 right ?

 

[GIMH]

I rate Smith's peak higher than Ponting's peak though. Ponting's peak coincided with the worst fast bowling stocks and flattest pitched in world cricket in my lifetime. Smith's peak has coincided with extremely good fast bowling - Rabada/Philander, Broad/Anderson, Bumrah, Boult/Southee. That's almost as good as the 90s bowling attacks.

England and SA had good attacks at his peak, Pakistan had Akhtar. It was more of a batsman's era though for sure.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England and SA had good attacks at his peak, Pakistan had Akhtar. It was more of a batsman's era though for sure.

I don't think England's was particularly strong at all in the 00s. They had brief moments of being good with the Freddy, Harmison etc. but they were pretty short-lived. Never had a good spinner. Peaked around '05 of course but didn't really last that long. Jones was always injured and Harmison's period of being good was especially short.

Other than that they were just serviceable, Hoggard & Sidebottom were nothing special but did a job at times.

 

[OverratedSanity]

One of the great missed opportunities - Bumrah vs Smith. Hope they are both still near their current standard when they meet next.

The awkwardness of that duo is something I'm dying to see

 

[GIMH]

I don't think England's was particularly strong at all in the 00s. They had brief moments of being good with the Freddy, Harmison etc. but they were pretty short-lived. Never had a good spinner. Peaked around '05 of course but didn't really last that long. Jones was always injured and Harmison's period of being good was especially short.

Other than that they were just serviceable, Hoggard & Sidebottom were nothing special but did a job at times.

Ponting’s purple patch coincided with England having a strong pace bowling attack, well at part of it anyway. Granted by late 06, Freddie was on one leg, Harrison had gone to pieces, Jones had played his last game.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Ponting’s purple patch coincided with England having a strong pace bowling attack, well at part of it anyway. Granted by late 06, Freddie was on one leg, Harrison had gone to pieces, Jones had played his last game.

Yeah he only really played the one series against them though. Like I said the peak of England being a strong pace attack was pretty short, unfortunately. They were looking pretty ordinary by the 06/07 Ashes. IIRC Hoggard was looking their most dangerous bowler.

 

[BoyBrumby]

He's the ugliest genius I've seen.

And that's not a cheap jibe at his doughy features. Practically every world class sportsperson in their imperial phase has a balletic grace and economy to their movement that makes their practice of their trade appear to have the apparent effortlessness of a god, and leaves one in something like awe. I'm thinking here of Lara's late cut, Federer's whipped backhand return, Campese's hitch step or Waqar's inswinging yorker.

Suffice to say, one doesn't get the same feeling watching Smith. His entire MO seems to be an ongoing calculation of how to best align his collection of tics and twitches to ensure he faces each ball with a straight bat. He has the apparent extra time all the greats appear to possesses, but none of their stillness before their explosion of skill.

Gideon Haigh once memorably described McGrath as the most unexceptional exceptional bowler ever, all he did was take your wicket again and again. The big fella had that easily repeatable, economical action and just peppered the top of off. Smith is the antithesis of this. Everything seems to come with the maximum of effort, as though Smith's body is the unwilling accomplice to the batting genius within.

The most exceptional exceptional great batsman ever then?