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Thread: The lack of competitiveness of Test teams away from home

  1. #61
    International Captain andruid's Avatar
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    There was a time in the mid noughties when India were reasonably good tourists. The days of a Dravid-Tendulkar- Ganguly middle order, plus the likes of Zaheer Khan and Harbajan stepping up from time to time. From the time they managed a draw against a really strong Australia team to beating England 1-0 at least.
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    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andruid View Post
    There was a time in the mid noughties when India were reasonably good tourists. The days of a Dravid-Tendulkar- Ganguly middle order, plus the likes of Zaheer Khan and Harbajan stepping up from time to time. From the time they managed a draw against a really strong Australia team to beating England 1-0 at least.
    Leaving out Laxman is criminal
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  3. #63
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    Think the fact sides are in and out with very little cricket played outside the internationals has something to do with it. In years gone by there would be first class games galore on a tour before and during the test series against proper sides but now they play a mickey mouse team on a crap pitch and then get hammered once the proper stuff starts.

  4. #64
    International Captain andruid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    Leaving out Laxman is criminal
    I knew there was someone I was missing.


  5. #65
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Even if you go back to 2010/11, England had two proper First Class games against state sides, as well as a First Class match against Australia A at Hobart. Which off the top of my head had Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, O'Keefe and Paine in the XI.

    It surprises me that the England Lions don't play fixtures against touring sides. Surely you want to know if the next guys in line might have what it takes against a proper international attack.

    The games being proper First Class games vs 13 or 15 a side is also important IMO, because they count towards a player's record, as much as a player's First Class record isn't as big a deal these days.
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  6. #66
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Even if you go back to 2010/11, England had two proper First Class games against state sides, as well as a First Class match against Australia A at Hobart. Which off the top of my head had Hughes, Khawaja, Smith, O'Keefe and Paine in the XI.

    It surprises me that the England Lions don't play fixtures against touring sides. Surely you want to know if the next guys in line might have what it takes against a proper international attack.

    The games being proper First Class games vs 13 or 15 a side is also important IMO, because they count towards a player's record, as much as a player's First Class record isn't as big a deal these days.
    A full strength Australia A used to play (and usually win) a real 4 day tour game every year (as well as a few 50 over matches) and they used to televise it on 9 too. I still remember watching Martin Love make 200* against England in 2002/03 at Hobart on TV

    And true that it was just as important for the local players development & experience as it was to warm up the touring side

  7. #67
    International Vice-Captain S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Martin Love had three years at Durham. If memory serves he made two gigantic 250 plusers for us.
    He (Alastair Cook) and his family are very much the sort of people we want the England captain and his family to be
    Giles Clark
    What we are doing here is future-proofing county cricket
    Tom Harrison.
    We want to make the game as simple as possible for them (mums and kids) to understand
    Andrew Strauss.

  8. #68
    International Debutant Coronis's Avatar
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    Yeah if you want more competitive series you need more first class tour matches. The Invincibles wouldn't be that impressive anymore not losing a tour match.
    ATG Test XI
    1. J.B Hobbs 2. H. Sutcliffe 3. D.G Bradman 4. S.R Tendulkar 5. W.R Hammond 6. G.S Sobers 7. A.C Gilchrist 8. M.J Procter 9. M.D Marshall 10. S.K Warne 11. G.D McGrath

  9. #69
    Hall of Fame Member GotSpin's Avatar
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    Who makes the decision not to schedule them is it? Or is it a joint agreement
    Don't go chasing waterfalls

  10. #70
    Hall of Fame Member GotSpin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Yeah if you want more competitive series you need more first class tour matches. The Invincibles wouldn't be that impressive anymore not losing a tour match.
    Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning

  11. #71
    Cricketer Of The Year stephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpin View Post
    Australia didn't schedule many first class matches (if at all) in their recent tour against India and were just so close from winning
    Yeah but not every side in the world can pick Steven Smith.

  12. #72
    Hall of Fame Member GotSpin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Yeah but not every side in the world can pick Steven Smith.
    Yeah I can't be bothered looking at the stats right now, but it shows that a dedicated and prepared camp before a series may do well as preparation

    It's better than going to Sri Lanka and getting green decks at the training facilities or outdoor facilities against Bangladesh that get rained out

  13. #73
    Cricketer Of The Year mr_mister's Avatar
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    removing the coin toss and letting the away side choose what they wanna do first fixes this problem
    cricket rules brah

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpin View Post
    Yeah I can't be bothered looking at the stats right now, but it shows that a dedicated and prepared camp before a series may do well as preparation

    It's better than going to Sri Lanka and getting green decks at the training facilities or outdoor facilities against Bangladesh that get rained out
    Actually playing 2 tests against Bangladesh is as good warm up as you can get

  15. #75
    International Coach TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpin View Post
    Who makes the decision not to schedule them is it? Or is it a joint agreement
    Usually up to the touring side to schedule games. It's rarely if ever a deliberate effort on the part of the hosts to deny a good warm up, that would be disgraceful.

    The only example I can think of was Aus tour of SL in 2016 where they were (very deliberately) given a warm up game on a green pitch against a side full of seam bowlers as warm up for Tests where SL (very deliberately) prepared dust bowls. The funny thing about was that SL didn't even pretend that they didn't do it on purpose either, they openly talked about it all in press conferences.

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