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Thread: The lack of competitiveness of Test teams away from home

  1. #31
    International Coach GotSpin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    In fairness, when we did at Ranchi I thought we were odds on to win the series after that. So frustrating that we threw away wickets to Kuldeep Yadav on Day 1 in the final Test.
    What a series JFC
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  2. #32
    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Kennedy View Post
    Is there an away one?
    Just need to switch the Won and Lost columns.

    EDIT : How about neutral venue Tests? I would count UAE as home for Pakistan from 2009 onwards.
    Last edited by vcs; 19-12-2017 at 04:23 AM.
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  3. #33
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    I don't think it's necessarily a lack of being able to hold on, the game just moves faster now. England in the last 12 months have lost 3 Tests by an innings despite scoring 400+ batting first. Back in the 60s scoring 400 first up would probably take you at least 2 days and make a draw almost nailed on. Now 400 in 4 sessions is easily doable which leaves so much more time in the game for teams to force a win.
    Which makes the ability to hold games for draws all the more vital.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Just need to switch the Won and Lost columns.

    EDIT : How about neutral venue Tests? I would count UAE as home for Pakistan from 2009 onwards.
    Besides that Aus v Pak in England.

    I wonder where the tri test series between Eng, Aus and Saf would count.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Which makes the ability to hold games for draws all the more vital.
    I think draws aren't looked upon as a 'success'. Not that they ever were but away teams certainly would try make it harder for home teams - you got to get me out attitude.

    Collapses to spin, seam, swing or bounce just seems to not be stopped maybe because of the attitude of teams now.

  6. #36
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I think draws aren't looked upon as a 'success'. Not that they ever were but away teams certainly would try make it harder for home teams - you got to get me out attitude.

    Collapses to spin, seam, swing or bounce just seems to not be stopped maybe because of the attitude of teams now.
    Which is mad because you think of some of the most team-lifting results over the last few years, so many of them have been draws.
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  7. #37
    International Regular S.Kennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Just need to switch the Won and Lost columns.

    EDIT : How about neutral venue Tests? I would count UAE as home for Pakistan from 2009 onwards.
    Of course. Silly me.

    So from that I can see that,

    - Number of wins at their highest ever by 5%

    - since 2000 the number of home losses has jumped-up by around 6% from what it had been since basically the 60s although interestingly it had been this way before (1930s, 1950s) and far worse in the 1910s (when there was hardly any draws). Maybe we should discount the golden age or even the sticky wicket era in toto?

    - Number of draws at their lowest since 1910-1919 (which does seem a bit of a freak decade).
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    I think something must be said about the way sides and players are coached in the modern day too. A lot of it now is about executing particular set skills and game plans, so much so that I think it may be taking away from the players ability to adapt and improvise on the field.

    What this means is that if a team's plans don't work, they're more prone to giving up and just accepting the loss. This links up to the issue with tight schedules - you don't have much rest between games, so instead of exerting mental and emotional resources to salvage a losing cause, they just switch off, go through the motions, and get ready to show up to the next game and hopefully execute better plans or execute the same plans better. This means more drastic one-sided losses and less draws (and why salvaging a draw or win from behind is such a big confidence boost to modern sides)

    Now obviously I haven't actually been in the dressing rooms or coaching sessions of any Test teams, so all this might be BS, but it's the impression I've been getting over the last few years.
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  9. #39
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    I think something must be said about the way sides and players are coached in the modern day too. A lot of it now is about executing particular set skills and game plans, so much so that I think it may be taking away from the players ability to adapt and improvise on the field.

    What this means is that if a team's plans don't work, they're more prone to giving up and just accepting the loss. This links up to the issue with tight schedules - you don't have much rest between games, so instead of exerting mental and emotional resources to salvage a losing cause, they just switch off, go through the motions, and get ready to show up to the next game and hopefully execute better plans or execute the same plans better. This means more drastic one-sided losses and less draws (and why salvaging a draw or win from behind is such a big confidence boost to modern sides)

    Now obviously I haven't actually been in the dressing rooms or coaching sessions of any Test teams, so all this might be BS, but it's the impression I've been getting over the last few years.
    IMO this has been a big problem with the English and Australian teams in particular. Way overcoached to play a certain way and execute certain plans, hopeless at adapting to new and unusual/extreme conditions. It's the main thing I hope Smith as captain imbues in the Australian team.
    Last edited by Spark; 19-12-2017 at 06:15 AM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    IMO this has been a big problem with the English and Australian teams in particular. Way overcoached to play a certain way and execute certain plans, hopeless at adapting to new and unusual/extreme conditions. It's the main thing I hope Smith as captain imbues in the Australian team.
    Probably not a coincidence that they're the two teams with the most consistently insane schedules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Which makes the ability to hold games for draws all the more vital.
    It's a lot harder to hold out for a draw if you're starting the 3rd innings 250 in arrears on the 4th afternoon rather than the 5th morning. Bat out 70 overs and score 220/7 in the latter scenario, congratulations, a good battling draw. Do it in the former scenario and the game's a lost cause, you're doing well if you get the opposition openers to get the pads back on to smash the winning 3 runs.
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  12. #42
    vcs
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    Attitude does matter. There was a big difference in how Sri Lanka approached a dire cause in the 2nd Test recently (daft slogging) vs. the third Test. They saved the latter match. There was a difference (3rd innings vs. 4th innings scenario as Furball pointed out above) but still.

  13. #43
    Hall of Fame Member zorax's Avatar
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    ^ that's also a good reason. A lot of the times all the effort put into trying to get a draw just leads to a loss anyways but by a smaller margin. A loss is a loss, why work hard to just lose by less? Cop the innings thrashing and move on.

  14. #44
    vcs
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    Going out to bat in the 3rd innings with a 200+ run deficit is probably the single worst position to be in a Test match.

  15. #45
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Going out to bat in the 3rd innings with a 200+ run deficit is probably the single worst position to be in a Test match.
    Disagree, you could be going out to bowl in the 3rd innings with a 200+ run deficit. Against David Warner.
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