Is AB de Villiers an ATG?

[Red]

Let’s not be ridiculous and try to denigrate McGrath’s achievements based on him not having subcontinental fielders around him.

McGrath was either the second or third GOAT.

Wasim is great, but not at the expense of McGrath’s legacy.

 

[Daemon]

Let’s not be ridiculous and try to denigrate McGrath’s achievements based on him not having subcontinental fielders around him.

McGrath was either the second or third GOAT.

Wasim is great, but not at the expense of McGrath’s legacy.

wut

all he said was that wasim would take more wickets with better fielders, that's pretty much undeniable.

 

[Top_Cat]

Agree he'd have taken more but not that many more. Not enough to push him above McG in terms of raw performance. They're both brilliant at what they did but with totally different MOs. With Akram, you never knew what was coming down. WIth McG, you knew exactly what was coming down but the **** got you anyway.

Yes that's right. McGrath was the king of breaks. One of the most intelligent bowlers ever to grace the cricket field, he was a bowler who bowled within himself and made the most of anything that was available to him, just like a proper fast bowler should. Whether that be a weakness in the batsman's defence, a blemish/crack in the pitch, cloud cover... you name it. Pidge was the master of precision. Since he had the ability to land the ball on a 20c piece, a mere off cutter was sometimes all it took. Some of GMcG's spells are a thing of hypnotic beauty. However, I'd prefer to watch Wasim tear through a lineup than McGrath based on aesthetic reasons and agree that Wasim had more natural "skill", even though his Test record in inferior.

That's fair and I broadly agree (more in the Waqar camp myself) but I did appreciate the McG spells more over time.

 

[oblongballs]

I dont think Akram was "easily" the superior bowler at all. McGrath did it all, everywhere, just not as flamboyantly as Akram.

And with 10 miles of extra pace.

It's the old argument of impressions vs results. Akram is the more obviously skilled but McGrath's record is better.

i do not see how statistics are the sole judge of a sporting career. Floyd Mayweather never lost a fight and Roy Jones won more world titles but no one in their right mind lists either above Ray Leonard or Ali.

 

[harsh.ag]

Wasim was the better bowler before he got diabetes. Not much of a close contest after that.

McGrath with the better test career.

 

[SeamUp]

He is just paddle swept a full pace KG ball for 6. Reminiscent of that IPL battle with Steyn.

 

[Chrish]

I have always considered Mcgrath the best I have seen, even before I was introduced to the world of Statsguru. Never have I seen the bowler who was always so threatening. I don't need to look at decimals to gauge his place.

It's interesting that Wasim topic is being discussed here since the same thing applies to the guy in question; ABDV. The player with so much ability and raw potential yet other less gifted players have had better career than him (Amla for example).

Btw not implying that Wasim = ABDV.

 

[akilana]

I’m of the opinion Donald was better than them. Could have ended up with more wickets if not for apartheid.

 

[Red]

I’m of the opinion Donald was better than them. Could have ended up with more wickets if not for apartheid.

You wont get an argument from me. Not convinced he is necessarily better, but he is perhaps the most underrated quick of all time.

 

[stephen]

White lightning was extremely good. I'm not sure apartheid did much to his career since he got in a good decade. I'd say it did more to the career of PA de Villiers than Donald.

 

[jimmy101]

Funnily enough Fanie didn't get selected in any of the rebel tours matches during the 80's. I understand that they had a completely different cricket board & selection committee back then, but does anyone know why he wasn't on the selectors' radar in those days?

I'd imagine their fast bowling attack of the late 80's revolved around Donald, Page, Hanley, Snell, van Zyl, McMillan & Rice. No room for a young Fanie?

 

[StephenZA]

White lightning was extremely good. I'm not sure apartheid did much to his career since he got in a good decade. I'd say it did more to the career of PA de Villiers than Donald.

He was 25 when he started at int level... he would have found a place in a SA team 4/5 years earlier and was a real tear away then, debatable he only played 76 tests and that is low for modern era bowlers of his caliber.

But it is just unbelievable to me that we had Donald, Steyn and now Rabada following in succession, could not ask for more as a SA cricket loving fan.

 

[Dendarii]

Funnily enough Fanie didn't get selected in any of the rebel tours matches during the 80's. I understand that they had a completely different cricket board & selection committee back then, but does anyone know why he wasn't on the selectors' radar in those days?

It might not have been just those selectors. He only played 18 test matches, and you would have thought he should have played more than that.

 

[Dendarii]

But it is just unbelievable to me that we had Donald, Steyn and now Rabada following in succession, could not ask for more as a SA cricket loving fan.

There was also a guy named Pollock who picked up one or two wickets...

 

[StephenZA]

There was also a guy named Pollock who picked up one or two wickets...

Well in between the ATG`s we've had Pollock (in his case also an a ATG, but not quite the same as Donald Steyn and potentially Rabada), Morkel, Philander, Fanie, Ntini as backup... no complaints there either...

 

[jimmy101]

It might not have been just those selectors. He only played 18 test matches, and you would have thought he should have played more than that.

After a quick cricinfo trawl it looks like Fanie was indeed selected for some LOIs against the rebel England team in 1990. I am aware that he suffered injuries from '95 onwards, but apart from that he was unlucky not to play more Tests.

 

[SeamUp]

Funnily enough Fanie didn't get selected in any of the rebel tours matches during the 80's. I understand that they had a completely different cricket board & selection committee back then, but does anyone know why he wasn't on the selectors' radar in those days?

I'd imagine their fast bowling attack of the late 80's revolved around Donald, Page, Hanley, Snell, van Zyl, McMillan & Rice. No room for a young Fanie?

Possibly may have been a case of who you played for. N.TVL was only really becoming a force in the 80s but mainly Fanie made his FC debut in 85/86 & might have just peaked a bit later than others but probably also timing of others. It is an interesting debate.

There was also always the perception he was a better limited overs bowler too which definitely may have effected him not being picked earlier for rebels or initial tests.

WP
Garth Le Roux (retired 88/89)
Stephen Jefferies (retired 93/94)
Swart & Barlow retired early 80s but shifted on from WP by then when they made them a dominant force again from the 70s onwards)
By 90-91
Meryrick Pringle (debut 85/86)
Craig Matthews (debut 86/87)
Brian McMillan (debut 84/85)
Eric Simons (debut 82/83)
Adrian Kuiper

EP
Kenny Watson (retired 91/92)
90/91
Brett Schultz (debut 89/90)
Rudi Bryson (debut 87/88)
Rod McCurdy (Aussie)
John Maguire (Aussie)

Natal
FAMOUS NATAL TRIO on the Lawn
Mike Procter (retired 88/89)
Vince van der Bijl (retired 82/83)
Pat Trimborn (retired 75/76)

Paddy Clift (Was Rhodesia's star bowler but also moved to Natal) (retired 87/88)
90/91
Peter Rawson (very good Zimbo - probably 1 of their best seamers ever)
They had to wait for Pollock/Klusener to come who had the tutelage of Malcolm Marshall, a very old Rice and Rawson

FREE STATE (also a smaller union beginning to compete in the 80s)
Allan Donald (debut 85/86)
Corrie van Zyl (debut 81/82)

TRANSVAAL
Donald Mackay-Coghill (retired 73/4)
MEAN-MACHINE years
Sylvester Clarke
Spook Hanley (retired 86/87)
Vince van der Bijl
Neal Radford
Page (retired 95/96)
Rice
90/91
Richard Snell (debut 87/88)
Steven Jack (debut 89/90)
Hugh Page (debut 81/82)
Clive Rice

N.TVL (Like Free State started to compete in the 80s)
90/91
Tertius Bosch (debut 86/87)
Fanie de Villiers (debut 85/86)
Steve Elworthy (debut 87/88)

 

[Dendarii]

Well in between the ATG`s we've had Pollock (in his case also an a ATG, but not quite the same as Donald Steyn and potentially Rabada), Morkel, Philander, Fanie, Ntini as backup... no complaints there either...

Certainly not. It really says something when Shaun Pollock is only the fourth best bowler of the past 20-25 years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Meh. We went from Balwinder Sandhu to Salil Ankola to Debashish Mohanty to Ishant Sharma. Beat that.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Yes I do, as I think most would.

The Sky panel last year unanimously voted Akram as the greatest fast bowler of them all, above McGrath. If you listen to the likes of Lara, ABD and many others talk, they all say the same about him.

Personally, having seen Akram live in four tests and McGrath in six, Akram was easily, and I do mean eaisly, the superior bowler. His swing, late and early, bouncer, speed, new and old ball ability etc were all better. Akram and Marshall are the Ali and Robinson of fast bowling. The others merely enjoy the shade in their shadows.

Akram was very good (which shows how good Martin Crowe was, as Akram rated him the best batsman he ever bowled to), but there is no way he was better than Hadlee and McGrath