Is AB de Villiers an ATG?

[SeamUp]

The biggest thing, for me, is people think of ABdV first because he is such a flamboyant talent. Amla just gets on with it. In both LO and Test the number of times you hear... "Oh! Amla is on 50 already .... did not realize." I still say the SA test team is best when Amla scores runs, it struggles when he is out of form. Probably been exacerbated by struggling with our opening pair though.

I can't choose because what they do and how they do it is so different.

AB just has more gears than others that make it easier for people to believe his ceiling is higher and it probably is.

 

[Top_Cat]

T20 - without any doubt
ODI - yes but wouldn't make the best XI
Tests - not even close.

 

[vcs]

His T20I record is quite poor actually.

 

[Red]

ODI - yes but wouldn't make the best XI

Interested as to why you think this?

 

[StephenZA]

His T20I record is quite poor actually.

But IPL is all that counts ... who cares about T20 Int.

 

[Top_Cat]

Interested as to why you think this?

For mine he's not decisively getting in ahead of Viv, Jones, Sachin, Kohli, Ponting, Dhoni or Bevan. He's up there with them but taking into account team balance (like I said, I'm picking an XI), he misses out (no I'm definitely not picking him to keep).

Many others are stiff as a board to miss out, Jayasuriya, Lara, Anwar, De SIlva, Miandad, etc. He edges them but it's a crowded field.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

As an aside, if we were picking an all-time southern African team (as opposed to a South African one), Andy Flower would be keeper and batting 5.

 

[The Battlers Prince]

De Villiers is a bloody good batsman and a brilliant fielder. I would be picking him for what he offers the team overall.

 

[oblongballs]

ATG is term many of the youngsters love using, I believe it stands for all time great. In my opinion, the true great cricketers number some 20, maybe 30. In my life time, I have only 10 at most:

Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Muttiah Muralitharan
Brian Lara
Ian Botham

Actually that is nine. I do not think I can be convinced that AB should be included among those names, or even surpass them. Remember, these are the names that would be ranked alongside those that came before me, Bradman, Sobers, Hobbs and so on.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Interesting choice of names. I'd rank

Kallis
Hadlee
Marshall
McGrath
Steyn
Sanggakara

ahead of a few on your list

 

[Red]

ATG is term many of the youngsters love using, I believe it stands for all time great. In my opinion, the true great cricketers number some 20, maybe 30. In my life time, I have only 10 at most:

Imran Khan
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Muttiah Muralitharan
Brian Lara
Ian Botham

Actually that is nine. I do not think I can be convinced that AB should be included among those names, or even surpass them. Remember, these are the names that would be ranked alongside those that came before me, Bradman, Sobers, Hobbs and so on.

For the stronger test nations it's reasonable to expect an ATG to be in consideration for their country's all time test XI.

Would AB DeVilliers be in contention for SA all time test XI? Most definitely.

 

[oblongballs]

For the stronger test nations it's reasonable to expect an ATG to be in consideration for their country's all time test XI.

Would AB DeVilliers be in contention for SA all time test XI? Most definitely.

would he be in a SA all time XI? Most definitely but that does not mean he is an all time great overall.

 

[oblongballs]

Interesting choice of names. I'd rank

Kallis
Hadlee
Marshall
McGrath
Steyn
Sanggakara

ahead of a few on your list

I had a mind block and left out Marshall.

As for the others, I certainly do not think so. McGrath, Hadlee and Sangakkara probably have the best shout though.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I had a mind block and left out Marshall.

As for the others, I certainly do not think so. McGrath, Hadlee and Sangakkara probably have the best shout though.

Do you rate Ian Botham ahead of Jacques Kallis? And Akram ahead of Hadlee and McGrath?

 

[Red]

would he be in a SA all time XI? Most definitely but that does not mean he is an all time great overall.

Just depends on your definition of ATG I guess.

For me, any cricketer who would probably make an Aust, Eng, SA, WI, Pakistan or India* ATG team is an ATG.

* Except for pace bowlers in India. I mean, sure, Angus Fraser was a good bowler, but he wasn't an ATG. Would probably make India's all time XI as a quick though.

 

[Red]

I had a mind block and left out Marshall.

As for the others, I certainly do not think so. McGrath, Hadlee and Sangakkara probably have the best shout though.

I would think McGrath and Hadlee have done enough to be ATG.

 

[Dendarii]

would he be in a SA all time XI? Most definitely but that does not mean he is an all time great overall.

But would he definitely make a South Africa all-time XI? I already posted it earlier in the thread, but for reference here is what Cricinfo came up with as their all-time XI:

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
Shaun Pollock
Johnny Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

This was back in 2009, and to be fair at that time it wasn't unreasonable for De Villiers not to feature, but would he be included now? He's obviously a strong candidate but I wouldn't say that he's an automatic pick the way that others like Jacques Kallis and Graeme Pollock are.

 

[StephenZA]

But would he definitely make a South Africa all-time XI? I already posted it earlier in the thread, but for reference here is what Cricinfo came up with as their all-time XI:

Barry Richards
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Graeme Pollock
Dudley Nourse
Aubrey Faulkner
Mike Procter
Shaun Pollock
Johnny Waite
Hugh Tayfield
Allan Donald

This was back in 2009, and to be fair at that time it wasn't unreasonable for De Villiers not to feature, but would he be included now? He's obviously a strong candidate but I wouldn't say that he's an automatic pick the way that others like Jacques Kallis and Graeme Pollock are.

Pollock gets replaced by Steyn, I dont think you need to play Faulkner and Procter. And wont it be amazing if QDK continues his trajectory, Cause then you end up replacing Waite as well.... but time will tell on the last one.

I prefer Amla in front of ABdV to get into the team. But I am also not a person who picks because somebody played a particular role. So I could drop Smith for Amla, and Faulkner/Procter for ABdV.

 

[Red]

I think the SA AT team is the most interesting one by far.

I usually pick the following...

Smith
Richards
Kallis
Pollock
DeVilliers +
Nourse
Faulkner
Procter/Pollock
Tayfield
Steyn
Donald

Which gives you a huge bowling attack of

Donald - RAF
Steyn - RAF
Procter/Pollock - RAF
Tayfield - RAOS
Faulkner - RALS
Kallis - RAFM

So six legitimate bowlers, but still with Faulkner at 7, averaging 40 with the bat, and Procter/Pollock at 8, averaging 30ish.

 

[StephenZA]

For me....

Richards
Amla
Kallis
Pollock
Nourse
DeVilliers
Faulkner/Procter (Condition dependant) -----(Rice also gets ignored and I rate him higher than Procter)
Tayfield
Waite+
Steyn
Donald