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Best Team of 1970 to 1990 Vs Best Team of 1990 to 2010

Engle

State Vice-Captain
Yes, this is similar to the side I was advocating. Pick your four best bowlers. This side can beat the 90s/2000s.
I subscribe to the notion of picking your best bowling attack. Which may entail picking a lesser bowler, yet one who complements the bowling attack such that the total is greater than the sum of it's parts. We're not picking the best batsmen + best bowlers (a computer could do that), but the best team combo.

Same with the opening batsmen combo. Greenidge or B.Richards complements Gavaskar, but Boycott does not.

Hence, I'd replace Hadlee with Qadir - a specialist LBG to complement Viv OB and Border SLA spin bowling alongside the pace attack.
There's very little Hadlee can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Lillee and Imran cannot, but Qadir can contribute much more.
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
I subscribe to the notion of picking your best bowling attack. Which may entail picking a lesser bowler, yet one who complements the bowling attack such that the total is greater than the sum of it's parts. We're not picking the best batsmen + best bowlers (a computer could do that), but the best team combo.

Same with the opening batsmen combo. Greenidge or B.Richards complements Gavaskar, but Boycott does not.

Hence, I'd replace Hadlee with Qadir - a specialist LBG to complement Viv OB and Border SLA spin bowling alongside the pace attack.
There's very little Hadlee can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Lillee and Imran cannot, but Qadir can contribute much more.
There's also very little Lillee can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Hadlee and Imran cannot, and while we're at it, there's very little Imran can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Lillee and Hadlee cannot,
 

smash84

The Tiger King
There's also very little Lillee can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Hadlee and Imran cannot, and while we're at it, there's very little Imran can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Lillee and Hadlee cannot,
Actually that's not entirely true. Imran can bring reverse swing to the table that others cannot.
 

Slifer

International Captain
I subscribe to the notion of picking your best bowling attack. Which may entail picking a lesser bowler, yet one who complements the bowling attack such that the total is greater than the sum of it's parts. We're not picking the best batsmen + best bowlers (a computer could do that), but the best team combo.

Same with the opening batsmen combo. Greenidge or B.Richards complements Gavaskar, but Boycott does not.

Hence, I'd replace Hadlee with Qadir - a specialist LBG to complement Viv OB and Border SLA spin bowling alongside the pace attack.
There's very little Hadlee can bring to the bowling table that Marshall, Lillee and Imran cannot, but Qadir can contribute much more.
No offense but unless we're dealing with an absolute top drawer spinner like murali or Warne it makes very little sense to replace a player of the caliber of a Hadlee just for the sake of balance. What does that mean any way?? Hadlee average is 10 runs less, much better Sr and sir Richard could also bat a bit. There's literally no reason to replace sir Richard except for the sake of including a spinner.
 

smash84

The Tiger King
No offense but unless we're dealing with an absolute top drawer spinner like murali or Warne it makes very little sense to replace a player of the caliber of a Hadlee just for the sake of balance. What does that mean any way?? Hadlee average is 10 runs less, much better Sr and sir Richard could also bat a bit. There's literally no reason to replace sir Richard except for the sake of including a spinner.
Exactly
 

sumantra

U19 Cricketer
Old guys

Gavaskar
Greenidge
Richards V *
Chappel G
Border
Botham
Imran
Hadlee
Knott
Marshall
Lillee

AB to roll his arm over with Viv

Less old guys

Hayden
Sehwag
Ponting *
Tendulkar
Lara
Kallis (later career version please)
Gilchrist
Warne
Donald
Ambrose
McGrath

Awful tail. No idea who'd win
Wow that is something, Botham, Imran, Hadlee in the same side, do we really need 3 all rounders? Can't we fit in a Holding or a Garner in that case? And also no Spinner...

There is a significant similarity between Sehwag and Hayden and that is both of them performed in the sub-continent and in australia and nowhere else, both are flat track giants, it is a harakiri to have them as openers where balls doing a little bit...

Hayden in New Zealand averages 28.14
Hayden in South Africa averages 34.67
Hayden in England averages 34.50

Sehwag looks even more dismal in those 3 countries
Averages 20.00 in New Zealand
Averages 25.47 in South Africa
and 27.80 in England

Smith on the other hand 57.29 in N.Z, 67.75 in England & 42 in South Africa

Left their performances in West Indies because in the last decade or so almost all good batsmen (even the not so good once) scored havoc there...if included than also Smith has done better than Sehwag and Hayden - 73 compared to 51 & 63 respectively...so, basically, if the match is played in India or Australia, that Hayden-Sehwag combo is fine, if it is anywhere else, Smith has to get a look in...

Also agree with some comments here that it is better to throw in both Murali & Warne to that older side...

I also had Hayden-Sehwag in my team and no Murali in the first XI...but then,,, :)
 
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sumantra

U19 Cricketer
My corrected teams after the discussions here...

1970 - 1990

Sunil Gavaskar
Barry Richards
Vivian Richards
Graeme Pollock
Greg Chappell
Imran Khan (C)
Alan Knott
Richard Hadlee
Malcolm Marshall
Dennis Lillee
Derek Underwood

1990 -2010

Rahul Dravid
Graeme Smith
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jack Kallis
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne (C)
Curtley Ambrose/Glenn Mcgrath
Muttiah Muralitharan

Had an elaborate discussion here on whether Imran deserve to bat at 6 or not, my argument was (and still is) that Imran at 6, Knott at 7, Hadlee at 8 and Malcolm at 9 as an unit (that is the lower middle order) makes it good enough for me...still fancy the older side but I believe I have strengthen the younger lot...

* If going without the South Africans, then Greenidge and Border come in...
 
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subshakerz

International Coach
Wow that is something, Botham, Imran, Hadlee in the same side, do we really need 3 all rounders? Can't we fit in a Holding or a Garner in that case? And also no Spinner...

There is a significant similarity between Sehwag and Hayden and that is both of them performed in the sub-continent and in australia and nowhere else, both are flat track giants, it is a harakiri to have them as openers where balls doing a little bit...

Hayden in New Zealand averages 28.14
Hayden in South Africa averages 34.67
Hayden in England averages 34.50

Sehwag looks even more dismal in those 3 countries
Averages 20.00 in New Zealand
Averages 25.47 in South Africa
and 27.80 in England

Smith on the other hand 57.29 in N.Z, 67.75 in England & 42 in South Africa

Left their performances in West Indies because in the last decade or so almost all good batsmen (even the not so good once) scored havoc there...if included than also Smith has done better than Sehwag and Hayden - 73 compared to 51 & 63 respectively...so, basically, if the match is played in India or Australia, that Hayden-Sehwag combo is fine, if it is anywhere else, Smith has to get a look in...

Also agree with some comments here that it is better to throw in both Murali & Warne to that older side...

I also had Hayden-Sehwag in my team and no Murali in the first XI...but then,,, :)
Agreed on Hayden and Sehwag. Even in Australia, they basically scored their runs when pitches had significantly slowed in the 2000s.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Wow that is something, Botham, Imran, Hadlee in the same side, do we really need 3 all rounders? Can't we fit in a Holding or a Garner in that case? And also no Spinner...

There is a significant similarity between Sehwag and Hayden and that is both of them performed in the sub-continent and in australia and nowhere else, both are flat track giants, it is a harakiri to have them as openers where balls doing a little bit...

Hayden in New Zealand averages 28.14
Hayden in South Africa averages 34.67
Hayden in England averages 34.50

Sehwag looks even more dismal in those 3 countries
Averages 20.00 in New Zealand
Averages 25.47 in South Africa
and 27.80 in England

Smith on the other hand 57.29 in N.Z, 67.75 in England & 42 in South Africa

Left their performances in West Indies because in the last decade or so almost all good batsmen (even the not so good once) scored havoc there...if included than also Smith has done better than Sehwag and Hayden - 73 compared to 51 & 63 respectively...so, basically, if the match is played in India or Australia, that Hayden-Sehwag combo is fine, if it is anywhere else, Smith has to get a look in...

Also agree with some comments here that it is better to throw in both Murali & Warne to that older side...

I also had Hayden-Sehwag in my team and no Murali in the first XI...but then,,, :)
Imran and Hadlee are both arguably as good as Holding or Garner. As a matter of fact, Imran /Hadlee are imo better plus they both could bat a bit so it's a no Brainer to have them both ahead of the two great west Indians.

I agree that botham is overkill. Reference a spinner see my post, unless that spinner is top shelf they're not replacing an atg fast bowler just for variety.
 

sumantra

U19 Cricketer
Younis Khan and Kumar Sangakkara didn't exactly have a fun time there.
You can add Hussey and Kirsten too...Kirsten probably faced a little more potent bowling line up there...Hussey surely, and Clarke's probably not that good either...
 
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J_C

U19 Captain
Wow that is something, Botham, Imran, Hadlee in the same side, do we really need 3 all rounders? Can't we fit in a Holding or a Garner in that case? And also no Spinner...

There is a significant similarity between Sehwag and Hayden and that is both of them performed in the sub-continent and in australia and nowhere else, both are flat track giants, it is a harakiri to have them as openers where balls doing a little bit...

Hayden in New Zealand averages 28.14
Hayden in South Africa averages 34.67
Hayden in England averages 34.50

Sehwag looks even more dismal in those 3 countries
Averages 20.00 in New Zealand
Averages 25.47 in South Africa
and 27.80 in England

Smith on the other hand 57.29 in N.Z, 67.75 in England & 42 in South Africa

Left their performances in West Indies because in the last decade or so almost all good batsmen (even the not so good once) scored havoc there...if included than also Smith has done better than Sehwag and Hayden - 73 compared to 51 & 63 respectively...so, basically, if the match is played in India or Australia, that Hayden-Sehwag combo is fine, if it is anywhere else, Smith has to get a look in...

Also agree with some comments here that it is better to throw in both Murali & Warne to that older side...

I also had Hayden-Sehwag in my team and no Murali in the first XI...but then,,, :)
Smith's record was rather anemic when he was up against the ATG/could've been ATG bowlers. Don't think he's the best option while picking a side against an attack featuring 3-4 best quickies of all time.

Hayden's numbers were much more respectable. Sehwag was imperious when up against the best bowlers of his time.

I think the initial selection with Hayden-Sehwag was spot on as those guys had performed respectably against the elite bowlers of their time. Replacing them with a makeshift opener and Smith weakens the team IMO.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
No offense but unless we're dealing with an absolute top drawer spinner like murali or Warne it makes very little sense to replace a player of the caliber of a Hadlee just for the sake of balance. What does that mean any way?? Hadlee average is 10 runs less, much better Sr and sir Richard could also bat a bit. There's literally no reason to replace sir Richard except for the sake of including a spinner.
I’d assume pitches still deteriorate in these ATG matches?
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
1990 -2010

Rahul Dravid
Graeme Smith
Ricky Ponting
Sachin Tendulkar
Brian Lara
Jack Kallis
Adam Gilchrist
Wasim Akram
Shane Warne (C)
Curtley Ambrose/Glenn Mcgrath
Muttiah Muralitharan
I'd have gone with Jacques. I don't think Jack did enough to be considered an ATG. :p
 

Gob

International Coach
da fuq would you want to watch Smith trying to shovel everything to the leg side when you can have Hayden and Sehwag in full flight really just weird
 

sumantra

U19 Cricketer
Smith's record was rather anemic when he was up against the ATG/could've been ATG bowlers. Don't think he's the best option while picking a side against an attack featuring 3-4 best quickies of all time.

Hayden's numbers were much more respectable. Sehwag was imperious when up against the best bowlers of his time.

I think the initial selection with Hayden-Sehwag was spot on as those guys had performed respectably against the elite bowlers of their time. Replacing them with a makeshift opener and Smith weakens the team IMO.
Well honestly I am not sure if any opener of that time period is capable " while picking a side against an attack featuring 3-4 best quickies of all time", Smith is a better option than Sehwag surely, and IMO slightly better than Hayden...by the way, Smith's stats are filtered from 2002 to 2007, why is that?
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
I guess one could go either Dravid - Hayden or Sehwag - Smith, will give a left right combination and should complement each other. Dravid - Sehwag could also be an option since they were team-mates and had a great opening partnership when they batted together.
Hayden - Sehwag is a recipe for disaster if the cherry moves, but in non-swinging conditions they will outperform every other pair from both teams combined.
 

J_C

U19 Captain
Well honestly I am not sure if any opener of that time period is capable " while picking a side against an attack featuring 3-4 best quickies of all time", Smith is a better option than Sehwag surely, and IMO slightly better than Hayden...by the way, Smith's stats are filtered from 2002 to 2007, why is that?
Well that's the point though. If Smith was significantly worse than Sehwag against the best bowlers of their era, how is he meant to be a better option when playing against Lillee/Marshall/Hadlee etc. At least with Sehwag there are a bunch of standout performances like his 150 odd vs McGrath/Warne/Gillespie, 3 100s including a triple against Steyn, a couple of massive double 100s vs Murali, 2 hundreds vs Pollock, a match-winning triple against Akhtar along with a stellar overall record. Smith averages in the low 30s with just 2 hundreds in 38 innings with one of them being against a post 90s Waqar. Except for Asif, he fared far worse than Sehwag against almost all of these bowlers. The stats are filtered from 2002-07 for Smith because all the Tests that he played involving these bowlers were within this range.
 

Slifer

International Captain
I’d assume pitches still deteriorate in these ATG matches?
Pitches have always deteriorated ; didn't stop Hadlee, MM or Imran from being successful. They were capable of greatness regardless of pitch conditions. Also, if the pitch offered any life whatsoever then it's a no Brainer. Lastly, the opposition has: Sehwag, Lara, Hayden, Sachin etc who ate spinners for breakfast. Who do you think they'd rather face??
 

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