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Thread: Variation of the pitch?

  1. #1
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    Variation of the pitch?




    Interesting debate here regarding spinner's ability to turn the ball. Accordign to this guy, it's a natural variation of the pitch that makes the ball turn.

    "You can say it's Shane Warne controlling it, but 90% of the time it's pitch doing it. That's why some balls turn massively while others don't."

    But if that's the case, how come other spinners couldn't turn the ball to that extent?

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    Hall of Fame Member TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Obviously it's both. The ball doesn't just spin because it hits the pitch, it has to have revolutions on it and the more revolutions the more it's going to turn, on average.

    Not sure this question really needed a thread tbh
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    I think OP needs to rephrase a bit or rewatch the video. He was talking about what people call 'natural variations', kind of what Jadeja has been doing his entire career. Dude in the video said 9/10 times Shane Warne wasn't controlling exactly how much the ball was going to spin, it was the pitch causing it to turn that fraction more or less.
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    The best spinners do control how much the ball by varying the axis of the seam. It's not an exact science and Warne probably doesn't know exactly how much it'll spin, but he can with atleast some degree of certainty tell if it'll spin more or spin less than the previous delivery he's bowled. Guys like Jadeja rely way more on natural variation.

    Seam bowlers, on the other hand, have basically zero idea which way it'll seam or how much.
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    Not true regarding seam bowlers.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    It is. No bowler knows which way it'll seam. And nah, that McGrath delivery to Warner doesn't prove anything. That was all about the angle of delivery and not the seam movement.
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    Hall of Fame Member TheJediBrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Not true regarding seam bowlers.
    Yeah it is. Being able to control the direction the ball cuts off the seam is a myth.

    If you're talking off-cut/leg-cut by rolling your fingers down the side of the ball though, that's a different matter

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    Every seam/swing bowler I've talked to has no idea how they get the ball to move

    I was once umpiring a game and in the 43rd over the fast bowler bowled a beaut that pitched on middle and swerved away late to just miss offstump. It was a dead pitch and that was the first ball to move in 20 overs. I asked him how he did it, and he replied "mate if I knew I'd be playing International cricket and wouldn't be here"
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    Controlling swing is a bit different. It's very possible, even easy at times. I'm not even a bowler and I can bowl outswingers and inswingers at will given a suitable ball and condiitons
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    It is. No bowler knows which way it'll seam. And nah, that McGrath delivery to Warner doesn't prove anything. That was all about the angle of delivery and not the seam movement.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    Yeah it is. Being able to control the direction the ball cuts off the seam is a myth.

    If you're talking off-cut/leg-cut by rolling your fingers down the side of the ball though, that's a different matter
    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Every seam/swing bowler I've talked to has no idea how they get the ball to move

    I was once umpiring a game and in the 43rd over the fast bowler bowled a beaut that pitched on middle and swerved away late to just miss offstump. It was a dead pitch and that was the first ball to move in 20 overs. I asked him how he did it, and he replied "mate if I knew I'd be playing International cricket and wouldn't be here"
    I argued the same as you guys ages ago and Benchy and Goughy (iirc) completely ripped into me, they were very certain you can. I can't even recall their arguments lol but I took their word for it because they're good players irl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Every seam/swing bowler I've talked to has no idea how they get the ball to move
    You can't have talked to too many then. Or they don't know how that sort of thing works in HK.

    Although people here have theories that make me go 'nah' all the time.
    Last edited by Starfighter; 13-10-2017 at 05:09 AM.

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    It makes sense that it's something that people can control, although probably not very well. There are bowlers who constantly get it to nip in, but rarely have it straighten, all while bowling with a straight seam. If it were random there'd be less of a discrepancy no?

    I know guys who complain that when they try to bowl and outswinger and it doesn't swing, the ball just nips back in slightly.

    I don't think it's a perfected art or guys doing it at will, put there is some degree of control that top players have over seam movement.

  13. #13
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    If you can control the angle of the seam, you can control the direction in which it seams to a certain extent by making it more likely to seam one direction than the other. Philander does this where you see him bowl seam up, 2 that nip away follwed by one that nips in. He also bowls with a scrambed seam though and then its anybodys guess.
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! OverratedSanity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    If you can control the angle of the seam, you can control the direction in which it seams to a certain extent by making it more likely to seam one direction than the other. Philander does this where you see him bowl seam up, 2 that nip away follwed by one that nips in. He also bowls with a scrambed seam though and then its anybodys guess.
    This being the key. The angle of the seam makes it more likely that it'll land the way you want and seam the direction you want. There is still very much an element of randomness here beyond the bowler's control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverratedSanity View Post
    This being the key. The angle of the seam makes it more likely that it'll land the way you want and seam the direction you want. There is still very much an element of randomness here beyond the bowler's control.
    This is true for spin as well though... the exact position it hits on the ball the grip it gets off the pitch, while controlled through revolution is not guaranteed. And this is true for every ball ever bowled regradless of style. The best are just better at controlling it.

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