Best of the modern Aussies skippers

[subshakerz]

Border > Clarke > Taylor > Ponting > Smith > Waugh

I’ve got a lot of respect for captains who take over sides that are in transition - especially if the team is also on an obvious down-hill slide.

So I’ve put Border and Clarke top of the list because they took over at the most difficult time and did remarkable jobs given their circumstances. Unfotunately for Clarke he was also hampered by an inept and antagonistic management team that was all clipboards, pie-charts and home-work.

The fact that Clarke’s record shows 24 wins and 16 losses over 47 Test matches seems very good to me given the crap he had to put up with.

Incidently, softened-up and hit numerous times on the body by Steyn and Morkel his Cape Town innings in 2011 remains one of greatest captains knocks of all time - 151 off 176 balls out of a team total of 284. Even Border himself would have been proud of that.

1st Test, Australia tour of South Africa at Cape Town, Nov 9-11 2011 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

I find Clarke's captaincy quite overrated. He was whitewashed in India and UAE and lost both Ashes in England. He mostly won at home in series you would expect Australia to win.

 

[GotSpin]

I find Clarke's captaincy quite overrated. He was whitewashed in India and UAE and lost both Ashes in England. He mostly won at home in series you would expect Australia to win.

Terrible leader of players too

 

[mr_mister]

Waugh was the best for me. Dont fully agree with the ethics behind 'psychological warfare' but the results in the W/L column spoke for themselves.

Yes he had a smorgasbord of ATGs to pick his team from but IMO he still seems like a very smart man and a good leader

 

[S.Kennedy]

How hard was it to captain the Aussie team of 1999-2004 though? My four year old nephew would have done a decent enough job I suspect.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I blame David Gower personally for the rise of Border’s Australia. When the last day of the First Test of the 89 series started it was heading for a certain draw. Gower gifted them quick runs by spreading the field and failing to contain them. We still should have batted out the day but didn’t and the whole series collapsed in a heap after that.

 

[Engle]

I blame David Gower personally for the rise of Border’s Australia. When the last day of the First Test of the 89 series started it was heading for a certain draw. Gower gifted them quick runs by spreading the field and failing to contain them. We still should have batted out the day but didn’t and the whole series collapsed in a heap after that.

Might as well blame Mike Gatting for that infamous reverse-sweep out against Border in the 1987 WC finals .
That WC win infused the Aussies with confidence and a turning point from their beleaguered instability at the time.

Border was not considered captaincy material, but by sheer dint of doggedness and with no one else to take the reins, he led from the front and brought the chaps together.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Might as well blame Mike Gatting for that infamous reverse-sweep out against Border in the 1987 WC finals .
That WC win infused the Aussies with confidence and a turning point from their beleaguered instability at the time.

Border was not considered captaincy material, but by sheer dint of doggedness and with no one else to take the reins, he led from the front and brought the chaps together.

Gatt gets his share of the blame for that sweep shot but it was the 89 series that was the onset of a generation of Ashes misery.

 

[Top_Cat]

AB at the top, Tubbs is over-rated as a man manager, the rest are placed about right.

 

[GotSpin]

How hard was it to captain the Aussie team of 1999-2004 though? My four year old nephew would have done a decent enough job I suspect.

Had to handle some serious egos

 

[Victor Ian]

Had to handle some serious egos

You're so right there. Waugh took over a great team and made it better, arguably, the best ever. He, so the press let me know, showed immense faith in various players and showed the confidence in them to let them prosper, think Hayden. He made the team play hard and unrelenting, having been one of the few who remembered the hard times from the 80's and how tough Border had it. I think Waugh was a product of Border and that amazing team under Waugh was his product. Ponting took a team that Waugh had made unrelenting and slowly watched new players come in and not develop the throat stepping ability that only Waugh got out of players.

I can't really rate the captains in a full order, except that Border is on top having nurtured the best of the others. I can't split Taylor and Waugh, then it's Ponting, Clarke and Smith. It seems all downhill since Border. Smith could perhaps become the new Border. The one who goes on to captain for ages and shows a team how to not be weak ****s who give their wickets away so that eventually the new breed go on to rule the world again. He'll struggle to have a good team, and therefore look good as a captain, until a new round of bowlers pops up who can not get injured. This crop are a pack of the modern piss-weak fragile type.

 

[subshakerz]

AB at the top, Tubbs is over-rated as a man manager, the rest are placed about right.

By all accounts, everyone under Taylor thoroughly seemed to enjoy his captaincy. But I rate Taylor over AB for being more aggressive, tactically stronger and getting Aussie to triumph against some tough teams in their own backyard.

 

[Tangles]

AB, Waugh
Taylor
Clarke, Ponting, Smith

I love AB but Waugh was my hero growing up so I can't split them. Everyone after AB owed him alot for what he started and drilled into guys like Waugh.

Before that triple hundred at the end Tubby was almost playing as a specialist Captain. His batting is behind the other 2.

Clarke was brilliant tactically and had some very high batting peaks but had a fractured dressing room.

Ponting was very poor tactically and was unable to maintain what he was given. Top bat but overrated as a captain for me.

Too early to say with Smith but his batting is immense so far. Needs to improve tactically though. Would benefit from an older intelligent VC but we don't really have that right now. Clarke playing on under him was never going to happen but it would have helped his tactics I think.

 

[CricAddict]

Gilchrist did well for a short time too, isn't it?

 

[Top_Cat]

By all accounts, everyone under Taylor thoroughly seemed to enjoy his captaincy. But I rate Taylor over AB for being more aggressive, tactically stronger and getting Aussie to triumph against some tough teams in their own backyard.

Ask Kasprowicz, Bichel or, hell, the entire state of QLD not named Healy.

 

[mr_mister]

eh, they got their chance. Its not like tons of undeserving nswelshmen kept them out of the team. McGrath, Slater, the Waughs, they all earned their place. Fleming and Gillespie > Bichel and Kasper as much as I rate all 4

 

[Top_Cat]

Whether those two were good enough to stay is a separate issue, I didn't think much of Bichel myself. Point is Taylor didn't rate them and wasn't shy about showing it. And in the haze of the win in the WI in '95, whilst Taylor and Waugh were stinking it up against mediocre opposition, the Aussies didn't have a post-Boon number 3 and other spots were up for grabs, neither Law or Love jagged a single Test and Hayden was dropped at the first sign of trouble. This despite them being amongst the top run-getters consistently and QLD quietly building a dynasty. Something else was at work.

Taylor allegedly deducted wickets taken at the 'Gabba from the QLD quicks because of the conditions, fair enough. But what does that say about all the guys who kept consistently smashing runs there but never getting a look-in?

 

[Red]

Surely you aren't suggesting that Taylor was basically behind keeping a whole generation of Qlders out of the test side?

I mean, Stuart Law's one chance came when S.Waugh was out, if I'm not wrong. And the rest of the middle order read Boon, M.Waugh and Ponting. There wasn't much room there without an injury.

The one thing I would say though is that before Ponting took over the #3 spot, we messed around with Langer and Blewett there, with very mixed results. Not sure how the time frames worked, but they might have tried Law or Love in there at that time. Would have thought Law might have replaced Boon quite nicely.

 

[mr_mister]

Fair point regarding Law. Deserved a chance more than Langer at 3


I didn't know Martin Love was heavy in contention in 95, but I know by 2000 he was a domestic force. But that's on Waugh not Tubby

 

[Top_Cat]

Surely you aren't suggesting that Taylor was basically behind keeping a whole generation of Qlders out of the test side?

Not just him, Bob Simpson.

And why not? There's always talk these days of giving Smith and Lehmann the team they want, building a culture, etc. Taylor was no different. Again, wasn't shy about hiding that he didn't rate any of the QLDers but he definitely didn't rate Kasprowicz. The most egregious example happened here. People bagged Kasper for having no Test wickets after his first two Tests but here is in his second Test bowling ****-all overs in the first dig and getting zero in the second, Mark Waugh and Michael Bevan apparently better options.

I'm not saying Taylor was a goon, every skipper has their favourites. And Taylor was an excellent tactician in the traditional sense (reckon he'd have struggled with T20 fields). But the guys in his team tended to be guys he had a long-standing relationship with, guys he didn't have that with would probably be less complimentary of his man-management if it mattered at all any more.

 

[Top_Cat]

I didn't know Martin Love was heavy in contention in 95, but I know by 2000 he was a domestic force. But that's on Waugh not Tubby

Put it this way, Love scored a ton in QLDs first Shield final win at 21 and looked a million bucks doing it. It's almost a meme that guys who scored a Shield final ton get a Test debut soon after, especially on such a big occasion. It's also a meme that MWaugh was basically undroppable no matter how he performed, the occasional career-saving ton notwithstanding. Love therefore had to wait 7 more years and score like Bradman before playing his first Test.

Now, of course from 2000 onward, the top-6 was basically a closed shop. But there was almost a 5-year period where, despite not utterly dominating the Shield run-scorers (partially explained by where he played half his games) a super talented youngster who had a nose for the occasion might have jagged a Test.