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Michael Bevan has an interesting test record. Underrated as a test player?

watson

Banned
that second vid watson was the very next match. 2 awesome test performances in a row. and the unbeaten 87 was at the WACA. Good proving ground against pace and bounce for him

the public must have been really behind him at that point. and he only got to play one more home test match, the SCG test in early '98 where he failed and never played again

Yep, in at 4/49 on a bouncy WACA pitch and 87 not out at the end of the innings as Ambrose and Bishop blew the Aussies away.

5th Test, West Indies tour of Australia at Perth, Feb 1-3 1997 | Match Summary | ESPNCricinfo

I think that due to a lack of proper 'man management' and some confidence boosting by the Captain and the selectors the Australian public has been robbed of a really exciting and unique batsman.

Imagine watching Bevan late on the 5th day of a close Test match chase down the required 4th innings runs with the help of the tail!
 
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TheJediBrah

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If Bevan had have been recalled anytime between 1999-2003 I'm adamant he'd have averaged ~50 in Test Cricket

He just never got another chance. A largely imaginary weakness against short bowling often used as the excuse not to pick him (though who you would have dropped I have no idea).
 

morgieb

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If Bevan had have been recalled anytime between 1999-2003 I'm adamant he'd have averaged ~50 in Test Cricket

He just never got another chance. A largely imaginary weakness against short bowling often used as the excuse not to pick him (though who you would have dropped I have no idea).
Well yeah that's the key. It's not like he's the only one that was on the outside at the time that would be in our best three batsmen today.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Martin Love, Stuart Law, Chris Rogers, Phil Jaques, Brad Hodge, Michael Bevan, Matthew Elliot, Simon Katich, Michael Di Venuto and Michael Klinger all probably would have had better/longer test careers if it wasn't for Australia's golden era of batting.
 

TheJediBrah

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Martin Love, Stuart Law, Chris Rogers, Phil Jaques, Brad Hodge, Michael Bevan, Matthew Elliot, Simon Katich, Michael Di Venuto and Michael Klinger all probably would have had better/longer test careers if it wasn't for Australia's golden era of batting.
Klinger was a different era, he didn't really get good until 2009ish. Why he hasn't been given a shot, especially in ODIs, is anyone's guess.

Jaques wasn't that good for very long either. He burst on to the scene and then was actually selected pretty quickly (within a year or 2) when Langer retired. Then just lost his spot due to injury and hardly even played for NSW after that.

The rest of your list is good though. Add in Greg Blewett, Darren Lehmann, Jimmy Maher (maybe), David Hussey. Even Mike Hussey would have had a much longer career.
 

watson

Banned
At the time it was Greg Blewett at No.3 who was effectively keeping Bevan out of the side. Ponting was still batting at No.6.

The tragedy is that Australia toured India after playing South Africa at home. Bevan was custom made for Indian conditions and could have worked the ball into the gaps till the cows come home.

Blewett on the other hand was crap against spin and averaged only 8 against the Indians.

What a stuff-up by the selectors.
 
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stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Hayden would have had a longer career as well.

Phil Jaques was good for the better part of a decade before his call up. He really should have played ODI cricket in 2005 but Katich was favoured because Australia liked having a terrible run rate. It was the back injuries which robbed us of potentially 5 more years of quality cricket.
 

TheJediBrah

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Hayden would have had a longer career as well.

Phil Jaques was good for the better part of a decade before his call up. He really should have played ODI cricket in 2005 but Katich was favoured because Australia liked having a terrible run rate. It was the back injuries which robbed us of potentially 5 more years of quality cricket.
Nah he played 1 First-class game in each of the 2000/01 and 2002/03 seasons, and didn't make a 50. It wasn't until 2003/04 that he played a full season in the Shield, and even then only averaged 31 for the season.

It was the 2004/05 season where he really stood out, averaging over 60 for the year and making nearly 1200 runs. He then made his Test debut in 2005, so he was actually a really lucky one in that he barely had to wait at all to be selected. (Didn't become a regular until post Langer's retirement in 2006/07 though).
 

stephen

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He didn't become a regular until after Hughes was dropped though. He had a very short career for a guy with his ability/talent pre-back problems.
 

TheJediBrah

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He didn't become a regular until after Hughes was dropped though. He had a very short career for a guy with his ability/talent pre-back problems.
Well that's not at all accurate either. Hughes didn't even debut until after Jaques played his last Test.

I agree with what you're saying, he was a class player and should have had a much longer career. But you're playing very fast & loose with the facts, and it's more a result of his back injury (as you said) than him not getting a fair go due to selection.

He was very fortunate with selection, he got picked within a year or 2 of becoming good and only lost his spot due to injury.
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I must be getting my times mixed up. I thought Hughes was 08/09 and Jaques 09/10.
 

Top_Cat

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So much revisionism in this thread. Bevan had enough chances and wasn't even dropped right after the Gough dismissal everyone still brings up. When he was picked against the West Indies, that was him being given the gig. He fumbled and fussed his way to ****-all runs against a team who didn't turn up for 3 Tests yet the selectors did all they could to keep him in the side when others were knocking, even giving him the all-rounder spot for Adelaide which, personally, was a mistake for the team and him. He responded with an abysmal 80-odd, was bowled off a no-ball, dropped a couple of times and despite the WI basically giving up, still couldn't put away the ton but took wickets, of course. The Perth 80-odd was a really great knock and more like proper Bevan so that got him on the winter tours to SA and England where, against guys who cared whether they won or not, he so regularly pushed the ball to 2nd/3rd it became comical. No one who watched him bat in the first few Tests in England could hand-on-heart say he should have kept Ponting out any longer. Ponting, of course, came on board, smashed a ton and did okay from there, I think we can all agree.

And to those who say oh he figured it out and had he been given another chance, etc. you don't keep picking a bloke who's not doing anything to warrant selection and hope he comes good unless there are no other better options. And, of course, at that time there were plenty. I understand the compulsion to pick them anywhere, somewhere. Bev was the Watson of the 90s, had that spark of genius about him, certainly was rated highly from the time he bashed an early ton for SA. But, at some point, you're shuffling the team around his potential more than the pay-off and need to move on.
 

TheJediBrah

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So much revisionism in this thread. Bevan had enough chances and wasn't even dropped right after the Gough dismissal everyone still brings up. When he was picked against the West Indies, that was him being given the gig. He fumbled and fussed his way to ****-all runs against a team who didn't turn up for 3 Tests yet the selectors did all they could to keep him in the side when others were knocking, even giving him the all-rounder spot for Adelaide which, personally, was a mistake for the team and him. He responded with an abysmal 80-odd, was bowled off a no-ball, dropped a couple of times and despite the WI basically giving up, still couldn't put away the ton but took wickets, of course. The Perth 80-odd was a really great knock and more like proper Bevan so that got him on the winter tours to SA and England where, against guys who cared whether they won or not, he so regularly pushed the ball to 2nd/3rd it became comical. No one who watched him bat in the first few Tests in England could hand-on-heart say he should have kept Ponting out any longer. Ponting, of course, came on board, smashed a ton and did okay from there, I think we can all agree.

And to those who say oh he figured it out and had he been given another chance, etc. you don't keep picking a bloke who's not doing anything to warrant selection and hope he comes good unless there are no other better options. And, of course, at that time there were plenty. I understand the compulsion to pick them anywhere, somewhere. Bev was the Watson of the 90s, had that spark of genius about him, certainly was rated highly from the time he bashed an early ton for SA. But, at some point, you're shuffling the team around his potential more than the pay-off and need to move on.
I don't think any of what you said here conflicts with what anyone else is saying. No one's saying he should have been picked again, or that he shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.
 

Top_Cat

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Yeah but all the talk about how he'd have dominated if he'd been given more time, there's nothing to support that other than his Shield record after being dropped. Problem his, his Shield record was already pretty good.
 

TheJediBrah

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Yeah but all the talk about how he'd have dominated if he'd been given more time, there's nothing to support that other than his Shield record after being dropped. Problem his, his Shield record was already pretty good.
IMO that's plenty of evidence, along with his ODI record. He averaged nearly 100 in the Shield in his last few seasons, and you don't average 50+ in ODIs and then average sub 30 in Test cricket given any length of time.

Of course we'll never know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that had he been selected again in the early 2000s he would have been a dominant Test batsman.
 

Top_Cat

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Well, we differ. He had clear technical problems that I don't think he ever solved, the sort that aren't tested by ODI fields and bowling, especially at the death where he did most of his work.

I'll cop to bias since he kept my two favourite home bats, Blewett and Lehamn, out of the side. I know I internally grrrd when the selectors finally picked Blewwy and still kept Bevan as an 'allrounder', thinking at the first sign of a dip in Blewett's form, Bevan would move up the order again and squeeze him out. Happily Bevan fudged his chance so badly it never happened. :)
 

honestbharani

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IMO that's plenty of evidence, along with his ODI record. He averaged nearly 100 in the Shield in his last few seasons, and you don't average 50+ in ODIs and then average sub 30 in Test cricket given any length of time.

Of course we'll never know for sure, but I'm pretty confident that had he been selected again in the early 2000s he would have been a dominant Test batsman.


 

TheJediBrah

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Well, we differ. He had clear technical problems that I don't think he ever solved, the sort that aren't tested by ODI fields and bowling, especially at the death where he did most of his work.

I'll cop to bias since he kept my two favourite home bats, Blewett and Lehamn, out of the side. I know I internally grrrd when the selectors finally picked Blewwy and still kept Bevan as an 'allrounder', thinking at the first sign of a dip in Blewett's form, Bevan would move up the order again and squeeze him out. Happily Bevan fudged his chance so badly it never happened. :)
You could say the same thing about Hayden, Ponting, Steve Waugh, Langer, Martyn etc., except they got another chance after being dropped.

I understand that you think Bevan had specific "technical problems" that make him different, and you may be right, but that's just an excuse IMO. Martyn had just as bad glaring "technical issues" and they didn't hold him back when he got a 2nd chance.
 
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Top_Cat

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tbbh, in a 'blow up the system' sorta way, I was hoping a few times the selectors would see sense and drop MWaugh for Bevan. Just for the lulz.
 

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