Rank and rate these test openers of last 25 years

[Burgey]

I can’t think of too many cricketers who faced as many careeer set backs as Hayden and still went on to be a great player for their country. Not especially pertinent to this discussion and I’m far from a Hayden fanboy, but it’s something about him I always admired

 

[Victor Ian]

Gary Kirsten
Saed Anwar
Justin Langer
Matthew Hayden
Virender Sehwag
Graeme Smith
Alastair Cook
David Warner

Graeme Smith - can't really explain why but this guy just made me think he was awesome - seemed to always stand up when needed - played with a broken hand - enough to put him on top.
Justin Langer - as an Opener, I thought he was better than Hayden - the guy probably averaged over 55 as opener.
Mathew Hayden - Just the presence
Virender Sehwag - his name ends in What A Guy - that says it all.
Saed Anwar - can't comment - could be higher - could be lower - I never knowingly saw him bat
Alistair Cook - just goes on and on - not sure if he is better than the following guys
David Warner - Kind of like a second rate Hayden - He might move up by the time he retires
Gary Kirsten - he just never impressed me - I don't know why - probably too long ago for me to really remember him.

 

[stephen]

It's really cherry picking to say that Hayden wasn't good in South Africa. In the 2006 series there he set Australia up in the two games we won. His series average wasn't great but his impact was.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It's really cherry picking to say that Hayden wasn't good in South Africa. In the 2006 series there he set Australia up in the two games we won. His series average wasn't great but his impact was.

Any argument either way is going to be "cherry picking". That's just the nature of comparing 2 players of a similar level.

 

[honestbharani]

Bangladesh of that time hardly matters given
Hayden was so phenomenonal in India and UAE.

Then the failure is worse... IIRC, there was a game they would have almost lost to BD but for a great knock by Ponting.

also, in their home country where they both played 50+ tests, Hayden averaged 57 and Smith averaged 41

Let's not forget we still want our players to be great at home as well as away

Try overall batting averages for batsmen during their era in RSA and Australia.

That's a pretty definitive stat



No point winning overseas if you're going to lose at home just as often

No, its not as its meaningless without the context. And it also matters which attacks you were bashing at home.

 

[honestbharani]

Very hard to split the 2 in my mind. So hard to compare as well when they have such different strengths and records, and hence there's always going to be a division of opinion when it comes to which was "better".

So the Aussie conditions during Hayden's career were really difficult for batsmen and then suddenly miraculously became flat slow batting belters just as batsmen from other countries started doing well in them...

 

[TheJediBrah]

So the Aussie conditions during Hayden's career were really difficult for batsmen and then suddenly miraculously became flat slow batting belters just as batsmen from other countries started doing well in them...

None of what you just said has anything to do with anything I said or anyone else for that matter

 

[honestbharani]

Then why did you quote the post on conditions and post that response?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Dunno why I quoted that. I guess just because it was the most recent post.

While we're on the topic though, funny that Hayden's average of 57 at home doesn't rate as highly because of "flat tracks", yet Smith averages sub-40 in Australia. And IIRC he only actually faced McGrath & Warne in 1 of those series so that's not really a relevant reason.

 

[honestbharani]

Smith's record sucks against McWarne (something like 20 odd over 8 tests overall) but many batsmen have had such dips against them. To me, Smith is a much better opening batsman than Hayden, having seen both over their entire careers almost.

And apologies TJB, I honestly thought you were comparing the Aussie and RSA conditions in that post, I guess you responded to that one mistakenly.

 

[TheJediBrah]

As I said earlier, I definitely wouldn't have an issue for someone rating either higher than the other. It's always going to be subjective, and there's clearly no "correct" answer as to who was better.

Still can be interesting to talk about though.

 

[vcs]

Smith's record sucks against McWarne (something like 20 odd over 8 tests overall) but many batsmen have had such dips against them. To me, Smith is a much better opening batsman than Hayden, having seen both over their entire careers almost.

And apologies TJB, I honestly thought you were comparing the Aussie and RSA conditions in that post, I guess you responded to that one mistakenly.

It could be that he was repeatedly getting out against Gillespie/Lee/Kasprowicz in those matches that McGrath/Warne were playing in TBF. Stats become pretty meaningless when you parse them so finely.

It comes down to perception more than anything else. Personally I think there isn't much to separate Smith and Hayden.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I still think Cook is the best, not just because of longevity, but because he's played more than half his Tests in England. Not exactly the easiest place for an opening batsman.

 

[RK_123]

I wish someone could do a Cook Vs Kirsten just like a Smith Vs Hayden.

 

[Gob]

Why no Slats and Tubby

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why no Slats and Tubby

This is the average >45 crew

 

[OverratedSanity]

Anwar's batting comfortably the best of the bunch on an aesthetic level.

 

[morgieb]

also, in their home country where they both played 50+ tests, Hayden averaged 57 and Smith averaged 41

Let's not forget we still want our players to be great at home as well as away

Only proves that Australia is just a bunch of roads

 

[TheJediBrah]

Only proves that Australia is just a bunch of roads

Makes you realise how good Glenn McGrath really was

 

[stephen]

To put Smith at the same level as Hayden is high praise but I think unwarranted. Smith was good but Hayden totally demolished attacks. Smith was perhaps more consistent but Hayden was easily better overall.