Rank and rate these test openers of last 25 years

[vcs]

Matthew Hayden
Graeme Smith
Alastair Cook
Virender Sehwag
Gary Kirsten
Justin Langer
Saeed Anwar

Think the top 4 are fairly clearly ahead of the last 3.

Forgot about Warner, too early to figure out where he rates historically, IMO.

 

[RK_123]

Is this true? I mean the other three played against better bowlers definitely and still AVG close to what Cook does.

Yes Langer didn't do well in Asia but Kirsten??

Kirsten also piled a lot Vs the two Ws if I recall.

 

[RK_123]

I probably ranked Warner a bit high, needs to improve his overseas record. He's sitting about neck & neck with Sehwag and can get past him with some bigger away scores.

Not rating Hayden ahead of Anwar/Kirsten etc. is criminal

Why this?

Since Kirsten was all condition bat than Hayden.

 

[vcs]

I don't remember enough of Kirsten's career TBF. Didn't follow SA cricket too closely around then.

Cook's average might be lower but his longevity will probably put him above a few other guys, for me at least.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Why this?

Since Kirsten was all condition bat than Hayden.

I don't really see why you'd see Kirsten as more "all condition" than Hayden, unless you're saying he was more consistently ordinary in conditions where Hayden excelled.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Agree with that. People seem to have forgotten just how scary good he was between 2001 and 2003-ish.

Kirsten was awesome. No way is it clear cut between him and Hayden imo.

Anwar, yeah. He was really good but his career was just too short compared to the others on this list.

 

[RK_123]

I don't really see why you'd see Kirsten as more "all condition" than Hayden, unless you're saying he was more consistently ordinary in conditions where Hayden excelled.

Hayden had issues Vs swing and Seam and hence avgs in 30s in England,NZ and SA.

Kirsten also faced better bowlers while Cook wasn't good Vs world class pacers.

So I think these three are close enough.

Yes, Anwar didn't played too long.

 

[vcs]

Hayden between 2001-2003:

Totally dominated in India (yes we only had Harbhajan, but we know how the rest of the Aussie batsmen fared against him that series)
Totally dominated a strong SA pace attack home and away
Demolished Pakistan's attack in the UAE, where people were barely able to remain standing in that heat
Had strong Ashes series at home, struggled a bit away admittedly

That's a very impressive resume for an opening batsman. He also used to score runs fast, and never looked like getting out.

 

[RK_123]

Hayden between 2001-2003:

Totally dominated in India (yes we only had Harbhajan, but we know how the rest of the Aussie batsmen fared against him that series)
Totally dominated a strong SA pace attack home and away
Demolished Pakistan's attack in the UAE, where people were barely able to remain standing in that heat
Had strong Ashes series at home, struggled a bit away admittedly

That's a very impressive resume for an opening batsman. He also used to score runs fast, and never looked like getting out.

Hayden was certainly a beast. Think Hayden> Kirsten.

We can do a Kirsten Vs Cook.

 

[honestbharani]

Agree with that. People seem to have forgotten just how scary good he was between 2001 and 2003-ish.

People seem to forget the attacks Anwar/Kirsten faced and the attacks Hayden faced. Rating Hayden ahead of them is what should be criminal.

 

[honestbharani]

Matthew Hayden
Graeme Smith
Alastair Cook
Virender Sehwag
Gary Kirsten
Justin Langer
Saeed Anwar

Think the top 4 are fairly clearly ahead of the last 3.

Forgot about Warner, too early to figure out where he rates historically, IMO.

Pretty much no way Hayden > Graeme Smith AFAIC. Would love to hear your reasoning on that one. I understand people rating him ahead of Anwar/Kirsten but Smith, come on.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't really see why you'd see Kirsten as more "all condition" than Hayden, unless you're saying he was more consistently ordinary in conditions where Hayden excelled.

Nah Kirsten excelled more consistently against better quality attacks in a more variety of conditions than Hayden did.

 

[honestbharani]

Hayden between 2001-2003:

Totally dominated in India (yes we only had Harbhajan, but we know how the rest of the Aussie batsmen fared against him that series)
Totally dominated a strong SA pace attack home and away
Demolished Pakistan's attack in the UAE, where people were barely able to remain standing in that heat
Had strong Ashes series at home, struggled a bit away admittedly

That's a very impressive resume for an opening batsman. He also used to score runs fast, and never looked like getting out.

You mean to say what Smith did is not as impressive even though he maintained it far longer and against much better attacks in the same variety of conditions as Hayden?

 

[TheJediBrah]

lol hb I think we get it

 

[vcs]

I rate Smith highly. He's a close 2nd on my list, hardly an insult.

Watching them bat, Hayden scared me more than the rest. I know that's subjective, but yeah. I just rate attacking openers highly, you can't measure their contribution to setting up an innings just by their average.

 

[honestbharani]

Well, to each his own, but I think there are way too many holes in Hayden's resume to rate him ahead of someone like Smith. To me Smith is a better player than Hayden by miles. Its as simple as that.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Smith circa 2003 was a gun. Made two 250+ scores in a single series in England. Something Hayden was never able to come close to.

Both great openers, I wouldn't look at anyone askance if they personally rated Smith higher than Hayden or vice versa

 

[vcs]

Better by miles? No way. Struggled when Australia had their ATG McWarne attack and never figured out Zaheer. His 4th innings record is pretty spectacular, though.

 

[honestbharani]

Better by miles? No way. Struggled when Australia had their ATG McWarne attack and never figured out Zaheer. His 4th innings record is pretty spectacular, though.

Hayden averages 35 or less in 4 different countries as opposed to 1 for Smith. And when it comes to facing ATG attacks, how are Hayden's numbers against peak Amrbose/Walsh?


Hayden sucked a big one every time he was presented with a challenge as a batsman. Granted he was awesome against spin and dominated India in a way no one had done since Andy Flower but he is miles behind Smith as a batsman.


EDIT: As pointed out by mrmr below, its only 4 countries he averages 35 or less. (rounding off)

 

[Daemon]

Yeah I tend to agree, though I wouldn't say he's miles better. Smith was more consistent and did well everywhere except India. Hayden definitely had more highs and a ridiculous home record but overall he's got holes like his record in England/NZ/SA that can't be overlooked.