Windies Team Discussion, and Other Related Things Thread

[Tom Flint]

That's a great team, don't put Gayle in the squad no consistency any more and the team plays better when he isn't in the side as probing in India atm. Russell bat higher than pillars imo and bravo isn't great, well he was awful at my team Middlesex last season

 

[JOJOXI]

I'd go with

Evin Lewis
Lendl Simmons
Shimron Hetmyer
Nicholas Pooran
Keiron Pollard
Fabian Allen
Andre Russell
Jason Holder *
Sunil Narine
Sheldon Cottrell
Kesrick Williams

I would consider having Sunil Narine open as a pinch-hitter but I know most of his success has come against spin compared to pace but if he gets going could carve 35 off 12 and if not he doesn't often waste too many balls. I think number 8 is extremely open too, I'd want a fast-bowling all-rounder at 8 though so between likes of Holder, Paul, Shepherd and the likes. I'm slanting towards Holder just because I wonder if the pitches in Australia for World T20 will grip much, if they did then I'd definetly say Paul at 8 or even another spin option in Hayden Walsh Jr. Also think with the likes of Russell's fitness I wouldn't want to be relying on Russell having to bowl overs. Also with Kesrick Williams and Sheldon Cottrell decent options at the death it gives the side the option of bowling Holder out with the new ball when he's at his best and leaving the death overs to Cottrell, Narine and Williams.

My fear for DJ Bravo is from what I recall he didn't have a good IPL 2019 then got injured, for me he has to prove his form and fitness in next years IPL and CPL to be considered but even then I do wonder who will take the new ball along with Cottrell if Holder isn't there, also a decent option with the bat at 8 and can be shifted up the order if the circumstances demand it

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

At what point do we rope in Carlos Brathwaite back into the mix?

Only for big tournaments?

 

[Beamer]

At what point do we rope in Carlos Brathwaite back into the mix?

Only for big tournaments?

In T20s if he performs in domestic tourneys and scores more consistently he will make s good squad player. Don't want him near the ODI squad though.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

In T20s if he performs in domestic tourneys and scores more consistently he will make s good squad player. Don't want him near the ODI squad though.

Fair enough.

I not sure if he will be participating in the Regional 4-day competition, but let's see.

 

[JOJOXI]

I've got a soft spot for Carlos Brathwaite since he made his Test debut thought he showed good fight in that disastrous tour of Australia and felt sorry for him he didn't really get an extended run, might've had more chance now Holder seems a genuine 3rd seamer you could imagine Brathwaite at 7 and Holder at 8 without relying on Brathwaite to be much more than a support bowler. Having said that it feels like he's failed quite often and with Russell, Pollard, Rutherford now in the mix Brathwaite needs to prove he can bowl 4 good overs more often then not otherwise he's just a powerful hitter who can bowl the odd over but is less consistent with the bat particularly v spin and probably not as good a T20 bowler than a fully fit Russell (although Russell's fitness is by no means guaranteed!). Perhaps put him in the squad as I do think he has a lot of heart and passion as a player, however he has a lot to do to get himself into a first-choice XI

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

In the last few tests he played, his bowling was not penetrative. That also coincided with the inclusion of Keemo Paul and Alzarri Joseph into the test setup. So his test as a Test cricketer was over. Plain and simple.

 

[JOJOXI]

In the last few tests he played, his bowling was not penetrative. That also coincided with the inclusion of Keemo Paul and Alzarri Joseph into the test setup. So his test as a Test cricketer was over. Plain and simple.

The bowling from everyone in Australia was toothless and he was one of the few to really stand up and show heart and fight with the bat against the Aussies. I felt sympathy that his reward for that was just one more Test where he got an unbeaten fifty against India in the 2nd innings and that was his career over. Paul debuted a year and a half later but fair enough on Joseph in that he was a player with much excitement around him at the time so not saying West Indies were wrong in plumping for him just would've been nice from a personal perspective to see Brathwaite have a longer run but I do have a soft spot for him so accept that might be a factor. His bowling wasn't penetrative I agree and Holder averaged 43 with the ball from debut to the point of Brathwaite's last Test, his bowling average since is 22. You can't afford a 3rd seamer averaging 43 and a 4th seamer lacking penetration in Brathwaite. But the current Holder potentially allows you to play 3 seamers and a spinner or even 4 seamers+Chase plus Brathwaite.

His career is over now as regards to Test Cricket but just felt sympathy as many WI fans would've slammed the lack of fight in that Australia tour, he is one of the few to do half-decently, lacked penetration with the ball as his bowling average demonstrates but much more economical then Roach and Taylor in Australia and one of the better batsman on that tour for West Indies.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

The bowling from everyone in Australia was toothless and he was one of the few to really stand up and show heart and fight with the bat against the Aussies. I felt sympathy that his reward for that was just one more Test where he got an unbeaten fifty against India in the 2nd innings and that was his career over. Paul debuted a year and a half later but fair enough on Joseph in that he was a player with much excitement around him at the time so not saying West Indies were wrong in plumping for him just would've been nice from a personal perspective to see Brathwaite have a longer run but I do have a soft spot for him so accept that might be a factor. His bowling wasn't penetrative I agree and Holder averaged 43 with the ball from debut to the point of Brathwaite's last Test, his bowling average since is 22. You can't afford a 3rd seamer averaging 43 and a 4th seamer lacking penetration in Brathwaite. But the current Holder potentially allows you to play 3 seamers and a spinner or even 4 seamers+Chase plus Brathwaite.

His career is over now as regards to Test Cricket but just felt sympathy as many WI fans would've slammed the lack of fight in that Australia tour, he is one of the few to do half-decently, lacked penetration with the ball as his bowling average demonstrates but much more economical then Roach and Taylor in Australia and one of the better batsman on that tour for West Indies.

One of the other reasons for Brathwaite leaving the test arena was that he was considered to be an integral part of the white ball framework. He was given the captaincy in T20Is, and it was bizarrely taken away from him earlier this year, even after winning the series in Bangladesh. He's been gradually pushed away.
Making a world cup hundred will always bring him back into the conversation. What are the plans that the West Indies have for him atm?

 

[honestbharani]

Why is Lendl Simmons not considered for ODIs?

 

[mr_mister]

They seem to be employing a youth policy in the top 4 atm

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

Why is Lendl Simmons not considered for ODIs?

And lendll's game is best suited for the short stuff, which ultimately is equivalent to longetivity aka 'fit for the T20 world cup'.

 

[JOJOXI]

One of the other reasons for Brathwaite leaving the test arena was that he was considered to be an integral part of the white ball framework. He was given the captaincy in T20Is, and it was bizarrely taken away from him earlier this year, even after winning the series in Bangladesh. He's been gradually pushed away.
Making a world cup hundred will always bring him back into the conversation. What are the plans that the West Indies have for him atm?

I think that was another reason I felt sympathy for him in making himself available for the Test side despite it not being his natural format with the initial part of the BBL going on at the same time too. It was a great innings v New Zealand and an innings of heart where some others might have just given it away in the midst of a collapse. I wouldn't be shocked to see him on the outskirts of T20 and ODI squads but don't think he'll play many more ODIs for West Indies - maybe the odd one due to injuries to others, T20 is probably his biggest hope I'd imagine for playing for West Indies again. I think his bowling is the key. Whilst he wouldn't be in my first choice T20 World Cup XI if he can do well with the bowl and bowl 4 overs more often then not in T20 Leagues around the world to have a bowling option who can hit the ball like he does is an asset. But if he's only bowling the odd over and is generally expensive then I'd prefer someone else to play.

Its a tough one as even looking at the last T20 World Cup in 3 of the 6 matches he bowled his full quota in the other 3 just 2 overs each. He'll be remembered in the final for what he did with the bat but he got 3-23 in 4 overs with the ball and his 3 wickets were of the 3 top scoring England batsman that day in Root, Buttler and Willey. The wicket of Willey potentially saving 10 or so runs too which in the end proved very handy and the other 2 players speak for themselves. You aren't going to get 3-23 every day but if he can get to the stage where he justifies bowling his full quota 9 times out of 10 he adds a lot of balance. Otherwise reluctantly I say he's relying on injuries to play many more games for West Indies in any format. That's from my perspective, I'm not too sure exactly where in the pecking order Brathwaite is now.

 

[Beamer]

What do they see in Khary Pierre? He has stunk up the place in his ODI career so far. There's no way he should be playing ahead of a wrist spinner.

 

[mr_mister]

I remember Braithwaites batting being really effective in the few tests he played

 

[Tom Flint]

Why did hayden get dropped

 

[JOJOXI]

What do they see in Khary Pierre? He has stunk up the place in his ODI career so far. There's no way he should be playing ahead of a wrist spinner.

This was his ODI debut and Hayden Walsh Jr has a far inferior record in List A cricket to him. Not saying I'd necessarily have made that swap myself but don't think there is all that much difference between the two in ability, Hayden Walsh perhaps more exciting as a leggie but only really in the setup on the back of one good CPL season.

 

[Jukesy]

whatever happened to Suril Narine? Legit serious question. Thanks lads

 

[Beamer]

whatever happened to Suril Narine? Legit serious question. Thanks lads

Corrected his action, is worried about getting called again in international cricket. My understanding is that is no longer the case but he injured his finger. He should be back in the T20 setup soon.

 

[Beamer]

This was his ODI debut and Hayden Walsh Jr has a far inferior record in List A cricket to him. Not saying I'd necessarily have made that swap myself but don't think there is all that much difference between the two in ability, Hayden Walsh perhaps more exciting as a leggie but only really in the setup on the back of one good CPL season.

Agreed but just watching the two you can see who has the more potential. Unfortunately Pierre just didn't look the part at all.