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England players and selection discussion thread

AndrewB

International Vice-Captain
I believe it to be complacency. Certain players appear to be undroppable in the eyes of English selectors. It means said player isn't mentality in the right mindset. One knowing they can fail repeatedly yet still picked is not good. It is a recipe for disaster. I personally put "decent" series batting as an average of forty as a minimum benchmark. Meaning Woakes, Curran (just) make the cut for England and no one else. This post had to be updated as the fifth test is in play.
Buttler currently also makes the cut (average 43). He will unless he's out for 10 or less in this innings; Curran needs to avoid being out for 28 or less. (Other players theoretically could make the cut but they'd need at least 100 to finish).
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
sky commentators were more or less suggesting that jennings is on the plane to sri lanka.

cannot wait for bayliss to **** off.
 

trundler

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Think we should expect less from all rounders. 40 for a specialist bat sounds about right though.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
wowee

Pretty big from Paul Farbrace on Keaton Jennings in today's press conference: "I would like to think he’s done enough in difficult situations to be opening the batting come the first Test in Sri Lanka.
 
Buttler currently also makes the cut (average 43). He will unless he's out for 10 or less in this innings; Curran needs to avoid being out for 28 or less. (Other players theoretically could make the cut but they'd need at least 100 to finish).
Correct on paper yet he made big runs in two stale situations. Once in a dead rubber. Once with an impossible target. If you calculate his average without those two knocks his statistics are more relevant. Curran's duck in this game is not relevant to the series.
 
Tommy could do a better job than Jennings. He may be a deaf dumb and blind kid but he sure plays a mean pinball.

Jennings is dreadful.
Generous.


sky commentators were more or less suggesting that jennings is on the plane to sri lanka.

cannot wait for bayliss to **** off.
I believe if Jennings is picked for Sri Lanka then England needs to be viewed as a club side, rather than a national side.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Correct on paper yet he made big runs in two stale situations. Once in a dead rubber. Once with an impossible target. If you calculate his average without those two knocks his statistics are more relevant. Curran's duck in this game is not relevant to the series.
Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Every game is important and you cannot just disregard one player's successes and another's failures on a whim.
 

TheJediBrah

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Think we should expect less from all rounders. 40 for a specialist bat sounds about right though.
I'd say Stokes has made a decent fist of this series. Swung and missed a bit with the bat, not assaulting the bowlers as he can at his best, but punched above his weight with the ball, striking some vital knockout wickets.
 
Sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Every game is important and you cannot just disregard one player's successes and another's failures on a whim.
I'm not disregarding it. India were still steaming in trying to get him out. Buttler is a great player. Very skilled. The fact he's scored runs in the two situations he has suggests a mental block when the heat is really on in a test series. It could be coincidental.
 
I read the article on Cricinfo about Jennings. It is damning. Jennings is averaging 1.33 in the series with balls hitting the stumps. On debut he was dropped on nought. If that had been taken his career average would be 17 in 12 tests. He averages 17 in his last 10 tests. Most tests without a 50 for an English opener (10). Most innings without a 50 for an English opener (18). Can't bowl. Can't field. Carberry averaged 29 in the whitewash tour in 5 tests.

An equally damning statistic is that Jennings failed to reach 50 in 20 successive innings after he was dropped by England in August 2017. Rory Burns was piling on the runs during that time (and now). He was recalled averaging 26.18 in first-class cricket since his previous test. :laugh:
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
To give Smith his dues both Buttler and Curran, S weren't glaringly obvious shouts and have come off, Rashid hasn't stunk up the joint either (although one suspects Root isn't full signed up to #teamadil, given his lack of overs in the series), but he seems to have a bit of a blind spot where it comes to young Keaters.

Stoneman (not exactly Hobbs incarnate, admittedly, but he at least vaguely approximates how a test batsman generally looks at the crease) was brutally dispatched back to the shires after the first test of the summer but Jennings has been the beneficiary of (what one imagines to be) unprecedented largesse from the man with the Cantab double first.

Batsman have succeeded in spades with funky techniques (Chanderpaul & Steve Smith two obvious recent examples), but Jennings resembles nothing so much as a robot who missed a couple of upgrades and can't fully control his motor functions.

Ed must see something in him (surely?!?!), but one wonders what it is?
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Will confess that I'm not yet convinced by Curran. Hardly coming in and filling a gap we actually need, lower order batsman and 4th seamer. That said, if Rashid can still get a game as a specialist number 9 then there's bigger problems to sort first.
 

Bijed

International Regular
Will confess that I'm not yet convinced by Curran. Hardly coming in and filling a gap we actually need, lower order batsman and 4th seamer. That said, if Rashid can still get a game as a specialist number 9 then there's bigger problems to sort first.
Yeah, he's been vital for us this series and seems like he'll be generally fairly invaluable to have around in low-scoring matches, but I'm not totally sold on his bowling in less helpful conditions, so he may be somewhat less useful overall in higher-scoring matches. His batting will always useful, though, given how poor our top/middle order is likely to be for a while to come.

That said, he's vastly exceeded the expectations I had for him when he was called up, so not going to complain. And he's still very young, of course, so I wouldn't expect him to be a finished product right now.
 
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wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Yeah, he's been vital for us this series and seems like he'll be generally fairly invaluable to have around in low-scoring matches, but I'm not totally sold on his bowling in less helpful conditions, so he may be somewhat less useful overall in higher-scoring matches. His batting will always useful, though, given how poor our top/middle order is likely to be for a while to come.

That said, he's vastly exceeded the expectations I had for him when he was called up, so not going to complain. And he's still very young, of course, so I wouldn't expect him to be a finished product right now.
I do fear for Curran's bowling in SL but that's true for all of our quicks. I know what Marc means too; when Woakes, Stokes, Broad and Anderson are all fit, we probably won't need a fifth seamer, even one offering left arm as a bit of variety. And yet, his batting kept us in the games at Edgbaston and Southampton. Without those contributions, we'd have lost the series by a mile, so I can see why the selectors would want to keep him in the side if at all possible. And, of course, assuming we win today, Curran will have a 100% record after 5 tests, compared to how we went in the two tests that he didn't play this summer.
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Bumble, Nass and Athers have all opined at various points of the series they see young Samuel's future as a batting all-rounder rather than a bowling one, so we could well see him moving up the order in the coming years.

I do like the cut of the young chap's jib. Call it the impetuosity of youth or whatever, but he's come in at some very difficult junctures &, as wpd alludes to, his batting has arguably been the difference between the teams this series.

Just wish he looked like he needed to shave more than once a year and made me feel slightly less of an old bastard.
 

Groundking

International Debutant
I do fear for Curran's bowling in SL but that's true for all of our quicks. I know what Marc means too; when Woakes, Stokes, Broad and Anderson are all fit, we probably won't need a fifth seamer, even one offering left arm as a bit of variety. And yet, his batting kept us in the games at Edgbaston and Southampton. Without those contributions, we'd have lost the series by a mile, so I can see why the selectors would want to keep him in the side if at all possible. And, of course, assuming we win today, Curran will have a 100% record after 5 tests, compared to how we went in the two tests that he didn't play this summer.
I dunno though I feel like getting him to experience foreign conditions earlier in his carrer could be beneficial to his development with the kind of temperment and tennacity he's shown so far.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
When does Alex Davies come into discussion for opener ?

Small and compact. Well organised.
 

Bijed

International Regular
What I will say further in Curran's favour is if he does go and have a bad tour of SL, he seems like he's got enough up to properly learn from it and improve his game as a result, rather than it destroying his confidence and setting him back.
 

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