Murali cleared!!! .... or not...?

[Slow Love™]

Incidentally, does anybody know where I could get access to the degree of flex rotation that Murali exhibited in the original tests that cleared him? Or is that info not public?

 

[luckyeddie]

Incidentally, does anybody know where I could get access to the degree of flex rotation that Murali exhibited in the original tests that cleared him? Or is that info not public?

Ask Bhagwat Chandrasekhar.

Sorry. Just realised - you want the physical results?

 

[marc71178]

I daresay they look it up on cricinfo

Well that in itself makes it a flawed system.

Perhaps they use one of those speed guns?

 

[Slow Love™]

Ask Bhagwat Chandrasekhar.

Sorry. Just realised - you want the physical results?

Heh heh - damn those polio vaccinations my parents forced upon me. But no, I did just mean access to the stats, rather than the skills...

 

[Neil Pickup]

I dont get you...
He doesnt chuck.. then everyone chucks??
I suspect the most confused guy in all this is Murali himself..

The point is Murali chucks no more than anyone else.

1) Everyone chucks a bit
2) The thresholds are arbitary
3) I find it hard to see why a spinner straightening 6.2 degrees chucks and a seamer with 9.3 doesn't

Still stands

 

[Langeveldt]

The point is Murali chucks no more than anyone else.

1) Everyone chucks a bit

So do you find it a bit weird that Shaun Pollock or Jason Gillespie arent being investigated?

 

[Tom Halsey]

The point is Murali chucks no more than anyone else.

1) Everyone chucks a bit
2) The thresholds are arbitary
3) I find it hard to see why a spinner straightening 6.2 degrees chucks and a seamer with 9.3 doesn't

Still stands

But Murali is straightening around (and could be straightening just over) 10 degrees.

Did they put a speed on his deliveries at the uni, to check it was with effort, rather than having the faulty idea of someone just watching him bowling, and trying to judge?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Brilliant stuff Halsey.. The Essex contingent have just outdone themselves.... Common sense doesnt have to be complicated

Thankyou.

Unfortunately, Darren Gough is now an Essex person, and will drag our reputation down.

The famous person whp famously said: 'Don't these plane's get low to the ground when they land?'

Now THAT'S quality.

 

[Langeveldt]

Thankyou.

Unfortunately, Darren Gough is now an Essex person, and will drag our reputation down.

The famous person whp famously said: 'Don't these plane's get low to the ground when they land?'

Now THAT'S quality.

Er, actually Halsey, I think that level of intellect drives UP Essex's reputation..

 

[Neil Pickup]

But Murali is straightening around (and could be straightening just over) 10 degrees.

Did they put a speed on his deliveries at the uni, to check it was with effort, rather than having the faulty idea of someone just watching him bowling, and trying to judge?

Less than 10 or the delivery would have been banned.

What I want to know is why that's fine for a quick, but not a spinner.

And Pollock/Gillespie must have very very low degrees (or if you're paranoid, are white).

 

[Neil Pickup]

Thankyou.

Unfortunately, Darren Gough is now an Essex person, and will drag our reputation down.

The famous person whp famously said: 'Don't these plane's get low to the ground when they land?'

Now THAT'S quality.

Given that you seem to have just decided that "planes" needs an apostrophe for no reason whatsoever, the antecedent level can't have been too high originally, can it?

 

[age_master]

a. He doesn't get any advantage from it

thats a load of crap, he wouldn't be able bowl his doosra very well without chucking it. let alone all the youngsters copying him and really badly chucking doosras

 

[Slow Love™]

So the ICC has finally clarified matters. And apparently, Murali faces a ban if he bowls the doosra in Zimbabwe.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/21/1082395894907.html

"In most bowlers it (the straightening) is more than five degrees and we don't know on what basis the ICC arrived at this," Mohan de Silva told reporters last week.

ICC chief executive Malcolm Speed, responding to media coverage of the alleged contents of the University report, clarified the background to the levels of tolerance saying:

"(They) reflect the reality that most bowlers straighten their arm to some degree when bowling.

"These current levels of tolerance are based on expert advice that suggests beyond a certain level, bowlers will gain an unfair advantage...

"As recently as last September at its meeting of Board Chief Executives in India, the ICC reviewed these levels and all countries were in agreement that the current standards should remain in place.

"There has been some media speculation that because the ICC will be conducting further research into the actions of spinners, the current levels of tolerance should not be applied in this (Muralitharan's) case. This suggestion lacks common sense."

 

[Will Scarlet]

Abnormality is no excuse for breaking the rules

Murali should not be excempt from the rules of cricket just because he has an abnormal arm. If you can't straighten your arm to acceptable levels then you should not be able to play! If the ICC had any balls they would have banned him or made him change his action to comply years ago.

In athletics, women who have testosterone levels that exceed the allowable female limits - even if they are perfectly feminine looking - can not compete in the olympics or professional competitions. This prevents women from getting male hormones injected and giving them an unfair advantage. The ICC needs to take a similar hard-line approach.

Murali does not have a follow-through. He doesn't have a follow-through because he throws the ball. Without a follow-through or a throwing action it is impossible to propel the ball the required distance. And then there is the additional spin that can be achieved by throwing a ball as oposed to bowling with a straight arm.

Sri Lankan Cricket is in total denial because they know they couldn't win without him. I wonder if they change their stance when he retires.

 

[Deja moo]

Murali does not have a follow-through. He doesn't have a follow-through because he throws the ball. Without a follow-through or a throwing action it is impossible to propel the ball the required distance

Yes, Shane Warne follows through wonderfully.

 

[maxpower]

is there some graphical explaination of the 10 degrees and 5 degress threshold for bowlers ?

 

[luckyeddie]

Murali should not be excempt from the rules of cricket just because he has an abnormal arm. If you can't straighten your arm to acceptable levels then you should not be able to play! If the ICC had any balls they would have banned him or made him change his action to comply years ago.

In athletics, women who have testosterone levels that exceed the allowable female limits - even if they are perfectly feminine looking - can not compete in the olympics or professional competitions. This prevents women from getting male hormones injected and giving them an unfair advantage. The ICC needs to take a similar hard-line approach.

Murali does not have a follow-through. He doesn't have a follow-through because he throws the ball. Without a follow-through or a throwing action it is impossible to propel the ball the required distance. And then there is the additional spin that can be achieved by throwing a ball as oposed to bowling with a straight arm.

Sri Lankan Cricket is in total denial because they know they couldn't win without him. I wonder if they change their stance when he retires.

Woah!

Let's get one thing clear here - the only question currently hanging over Murali is regarding the Doosra - he has been cleared over all his other deliveries. It may well be that the 'mystery' ball will not be permitted again, given the latest news, but that is not clear at the moment.

Assuming you are just referring to Murali in general (although there was so much bile spewing around it was difficult to find the little, chewy bits of carrot), I'll take your paragraphs in order.

Having an arm which is not straight throughout the delivery action has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with throwing - it is the actual straightening from a bent position which constitutes a throw.

I cannot quite see the relevance of testosterone injections here. Surely, from a cricketing context if you wish to draw attention to a drug-cheating parallel there is an example a little closer to home?

The follow-through - utter rot. Bishen Bedi never had a follow-through. Carl Hooper never had a follow-through - because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the position of the arm - just the speed of the approach and the 'pivot'.

You may be right that Sri Lanka would find it difficult to win without him - that's because he is an exceptional spinner - possibly the greatest the game has ever seen. However, I find it difficult to conclude that Sri Lanka will change their stance after he retires.

In conclusion, Will Scarlet is really Shane Warne's mum and I claim my five pounds.

 

[Loony BoB]

I think it's all a big shame. Is this really in the best interests of the game? It seems to be turning into a batsman's game lately, and it would be nice if the bowlers could have a couple more tricks up their sleeve, or at least a bit more leeway.

 

[bennyr]

I think it's all a big shame. Is this really in the best interests of the game? It seems to be turning into a batsman's game lately, and it would be nice if the bowlers could have a couple more tricks up their sleeve, or at least a bit more leeway.

I don't think there are many of us that would disagree with your assessment of the direction of the game in terms of giving everything to the batsmen, however, the best way to improve this is to give a little back to all the bowlers. Plenty of things could be done to achieve this (more interesting pitches, umpires not being so paranoid about LBW's) but I reckon allowing bad actions to prosper because it's only just illegal is a really bad start.

The doosra must go!

 

[garage flower]

The point is Murali chucks no more than anyone else.

1) Everyone chucks a bit
2) The thresholds are arbitary
3) I find it hard to see why a spinner straightening 6.2 degrees chucks and a seamer with 9.3 doesn't

Still stands

Neil, I think you need to come down from your high horse.

It seems to be a fairly cut and dried issue to me. The doosra has been found to exceed the agreed limits for straightening and so - as the ICC have now clarified - he shouldn't be bowling it.

Regardless of whether you think the thresholds are arbitrary and that separate limits shouldn't be established for fast and slow bowlers, the fact is that the agreed thresholds must be applied to all bowlers.