Is MS Dhoni an ATG OdI batsmen?

[RK_123]

What is your top five?it better be as same as mine cos im never wrong

Kohli
AB
Viv
Sachin
Ponting

Order difference..

Viv
Sachin
Ponting
AB
Kohli

Feel Bevan is up there too..

 

[Red]

What is your top five?it better be as same as mine cos im never wrong

Kohli
AB
Viv
Sachin
Ponting

Mine are in this order:

Richards
Sachin
DeVilliers
Kohli
Abbas

 

[viriya]

Did you even read my post?

Said it's a toss up between the two who would keep and bat top 6 in an ODI ATG XI.

MB thought you meant at #6. I think Dhoni is a clear better choice than Gilly esp when you can get a like for like replacement for Gilchrist with sehwag or jayasuriya (who bring bowling options too)

 

[Furball]

Must admit, hadn't realised he'd never scored a hundred outside of Asia.

Not outs are more important than tons for a batsman in Dhoni's position.

If you're regularly scoring tons from 5 or 6 then you're either blasting nonsense 100 (40) type innings on a regular basis or your top order is hopeless.

 

[stephen]

MB thought you meant at #6. I think Dhoni is a clear better choice than Gilly esp when you can get a like for like replacement for Gilchrist with sehwag or jayasuriya (who bring bowling options too)

Dhoni vs Gilchrist in an AT ODI XI is about the other players. Generally speaking you go Dhoni+Jayasuria or Gilchrist+Bevan. The rest of the order is:

Tendulkar
Jayasuria/Gilchrist
Ponting
Viv
Middle order bat of choice
Dhoni/Bevan
All rounder of choice
Warne
Akram
McGrath
Garner

Given the fast bowling Warne fits better than Murali and the three quicks pick themselves. 5 and 7 are flex spots that can go to anyone.

 

[RK_123]

Dhoni vs Gilchrist in an AT ODI XI is about the other players. Generally speaking you go Dhoni+Jayasuria or Gilchrist+Bevan. The rest of the order is:

Tendulkar
Jayasuria/Gilchrist
Ponting
Viv
Middle order bat of choice(AB)
Dhoni/Bevan
All rounder of choice(Klusenar/Kapil)
Warne
Akram
McGrath
Garner

Given the fast bowling Warne fits better than Murali and the three quicks pick themselves. 5 and 7 are flex spots that can go to anyone.

Think this will do it.

If Gilly is in team then Kapil can be considered to have a strong 5th bowler and if Jaya is there then Klusenar would work. Klusenar himself is a very good finisher as well.

 

[weldone]

I think Dhoni and Gilchrist can play together

Gilchrist
Tendulkar
Ponting
Viv
AB
Dhoni

is as good a top 6 as any

 

[stephen]

You're better batting Bevan at 6 than Dhoni. Bevan was a better batsman and a better finisher than Dhoni. The only reason you'd consider Dhoni is if he's keeping.

It's like picking Gilchrist or Jayasuria as opener - there are other batsmen who are the same or slightly ahead but Jaya gives you a great bowling option and Gilchrist gives you an excellent keeper (who was better behind the pegs than Dhoni).

 

[RK_123]

You're better batting Bevan at 6 than Dhoni. Bevan was a better batsman and a better finisher than Dhoni. The only reason you'd consider Dhoni is if he's keeping.

It's like picking Gilchrist or Jayasuria as opener - there are other batsmen who are the same or slightly ahead but Jaya gives you a great bowling option and Gilchrist gives you an excellent keeper (who was better behind the pegs than Dhoni).

How about having Jaya, Dhoni and Klusenar at 2, 6 and 7.

Jaya and Klusenar together good enough for fifth bowling option.

Dhoni and Klusenar together are quality finishers.

Imagine AB batting at 5 with Dhoni/Klusenar behind. All his failed chases would become successful..!

 

[Black_Warrior]

Must admit, hadn't realised he'd never scored a hundred outside of Asia.

His role at 5/6 is very different. Number of 100s should not be a criteria there. Strike rate and ability to close out games are what I would look at.

 

[stephen]

How about having Jaya, Dhoni and Klusenar at 2, 6 and 7.

Jaya and Klusenar together good enough for fifth bowling option.

Dhoni and Klusenar together are quality finishers.

Imagine AB batting at 5 with Dhoni/Klusenar behind. All his failed chases would become successful..!

You don't need Jaya and Klusenar. One of the two will suffice. If you're going for Zulu you're better off with Gilchrist and Bevan. Bevan can give you a couple of overs of spin if needed anyway.

The thing is, when you're taking about the best ever, second best isn't good enough. Gilchrist is a better keeper than Dhoni and Bevan is a better batsman than Dhoni. Especially outside Asia.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Must admit, hadn't realised he'd never scored a hundred outside of Asia.

You seemed quite surprised when you posted the same thing a few weeks ago tbf

Someone on twitter pointed out an interesting statistics about Dhoni that I didn't actually know. Outside of Asia he scored zero ODI hundreds & in fact made zero international hundred any any form of cricket at all outside of Asia, which I almost found unbelievable.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dude does have a point wrt Dhonis away record tbf. Not that it stops him from being an ATG.

Yeah, it'd be a fair point if he was arguing for someone like Bevan to be better because of a better overseas record. Can't say that his overseas record is poor though. It's not amazing but its perfectly decent. Lots of ATGs have mediocre overseas records. Eg: Gilchrist has poor numbers in many of the countries he played in.

Even Sachin's record outside the SC was shockingly average in the 90s for such a great player. It's a flaw for Dhoni as well, but not a fatal one.

 

[cnerd123]

Away records are meant to be worse than home ones anyways. That's just how the dynamic of playing home vs away works.

Players like Rahane who do better away from home than at home are freaks.

 

[Shri]

You're better batting Bevan at 6 than Dhoni. Bevan was a better batsman and a better finisher than Dhoni.

Not necessarily.

 

[Gob]

You seemed quite surprised when you posted the same thing a few weeks ago tbf

Anterograde amnesia.

 

[stephen]

Not necessarily.

Maybe Dhoni had the edge on Bevan in Asia, but Bevan was way better everywhere else.

 

[Zinzan]

You seemed quite surprised when you posted the same thing a few weeks ago tbf

Aww, look at that, I've even got you taking your time trawling through previous posts looking for evidence.... cute. Hope you're not contemplating trying to charge me your research time.

Btw, surprised to learn Dhoni never scored a ODI hundred outside Asia.

 

[cnerd123]

Aww, look at that, I've even got you taking your time trawling through previous posts looking for evidence...

evidence?

evidence for what?

 

[Black_Warrior]

Lol OS you kid