Based on purely WK skills - Boucher Or Gilchrist?

[akilana]

It is't Boucher's fault that he wasnt tested keeping to spinners like Warne. Ponting as a batsman wasn't tested by the greatest bowling attack of his time but we don't count that against him.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Think Gilly's keeping is being a bit overblown here - he was a very good keeper, especially a man of his size, but talk of him almost never missing a chance is taking it a bit far.

 

[Victor Ian]

Who's talking of him never missing a chance? The talk is that he missed less than others, including Boucher.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Whenever I watched as a kid I always wondered about Boucher tbh, cause he seemed like a bit of a **** keeper for someone who scored as few runs as he did.

I always just assumed they didn't have everyone else. Boucher's probably lucky he was South African, most other countries he would probably have barely played International cricket, let alone for 15 years or however long he played for.

Australia - no chance
England - would have been dropped and re-selected a few times probably
India - would have probably played a bit but Dhoni replaced him
Sri Lanka - wouldn't have played much while S'gakkara was keeping
Pakistan - would have been in and out
West Indies - probably played most of the time tbh, West Indies are ****
New Zealand - in and out as well IMO, McCullum would have displaced him briefly while he was keeper

 

[Zinzan]

Whenever I watched as a kid I always wondered about Boucher tbh, cause he seemed like a bit of a **** keeper for someone who scored as few runs as he did.

I always just assumed they didn't have everyone else. Boucher's probably lucky he was South African, most other countries he would probably have barely played International cricket, let alone for 15 years or however long he played for.

Australia - no chance
England - would have been dropped and re-selected a few times probably
India - would have probably played a bit but Dhoni replaced him
Sri Lanka - wouldn't have played much while S'gakkara was keeping
Pakistan - would have been in and out
West Indies - probably played most of the time tbh, West Indies are ****
New Zealand - in and out as well IMO, McCullum would have displaced him briefly while he was keeper

Disagree, I'd guess he would have been fairly permanent in both England and Pakistan, and I doubt SL would have needed Sanga to keep if they had another keeper/bat as solid as Boucher.

If anything you could say he was a little unlucky to play at a time of some freakishly good keeper/batsmen as Gilchrist/Sanga & Dhoni, since he was probably as could a keeper/bat as anyone before these guys came along.

 

[Dendarii]

If anything you could say he was a little unlucky to play at a time of some freakishly good keeper/batsmen as Gilchrist/Sanga & Dhoni, since he was probably as could a keeper/bat as anyone before these guys came along.

He's affected by the longevity of his career and the changing role of the keeper. When he started playing it was OK for a keeper to average in the 30s, but by the time his career ended keepers were expected to essentially be an additional batsman averaging in the 40s, as evidenced by the guys you've mentioned. So he suffers a bit in comparison because of that.

 

[SeamUp]

He's affected by the longevity of his career and the changing role of the keeper. When he started playing it was OK for a keeper to average in the 30s, but by the time his career ended keepers were expected to essentially be an additional batsman averaging in the 40s, as evidenced by the guys you've mentioned. So he suffers a bit in comparison because of that.

Exactly right. And the fact that he made the conscious effort to focus on his keeping more early in his career bears testament to that. After his first England tour he did alright but it was an eye opener to him with the ball swinging after the stumps and that drop catch which he didn't so much of. His batting lost that 100 ability he had early in his career because of the focus on test cricket as his main job was to keep.

I honestly can't remember him dropping too many catches, he hated conceding byes and all players he has played with in SA cricket team say he was the player who made the team tick. I loved watching him move and the way he took cricket ball as a keeper was technically beautiful. He was a super talented squash player as a junior and could have easily played for SA and he could have taken for granted his hand-and-eye co-ordination for his keeping which I think he did in his early days. I also loved how he played a lot of his crucial knocks v England.

 

[Burgey]

Gilchrist took a large number of spectacular diving catches off quicks, and I can't ever remember him dropping a catch or missing a stumping. Though it could be that the Aussies created enough opportunities that the misses don't stick in the mind.

He dropped an easy one in Adelaide iirc in his last series vs India which he basically said was the moment he realised he was done.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Missed a bucketful of chances in the 2005 Ashes.

 

[Furball]

He was mentally shot in the 2005 Ashes. I don't remember that translating to his keeping too much though.

 

[Red]

I dont remember him being bad in 2005.

I do remember Hayden being like the schoolyard bully who had ruled the yard for a few years but then suddenly a few tougher kids came in and he tried to bluster his way but he couldnt match it.

Geez I dislike/d Hayden

 

[Zinzan]

Warne doesn't make the Gilchrist/Healy argument even sound close. He's said on numerous occasions that Healy was 'easily' the best keeper he played with.

 

[S.Kennedy]

Warne doesn't make the Gilchrist/Healy argument even sound close. He's said on numerous occasions that Healy was 'easily' the best keeper he played with.

I've heard that also. I've also heard him say Taylor was by far the best captain he played under!

 

[Bijed]

I dont remember him being bad in 2005.

Had a few bad misses at Old Trafford, was fine apart from that iirc

 

[adub]

Disagree, I'd guess he would have been fairly permanent in both England and Pakistan, and I doubt SL would have needed Sanga to keep if they had another keeper/bat as solid as Boucher.

If anything you could say he was a little unlucky to play at a time of some freakishly good keeper/batsmen as Gilchrist/Sanga & Dhoni, since he was probably as could a keeper/bat as anyone before these guys came along.

Yeah, I think this is pretty right. Healy before Gilly came along was considered a more than handy no.7. His average never hit 30 (29.90 peak).

 

[adub]

Warne doesn't make the Gilchrist/Healy argument even sound close. He's said on numerous occasions that Healy was 'easily' the best keeper he played with.

tbf taking Warne's opinion seriously on most matters is asking for pain.

But I've also conceded Healy was probably better than Gilly, just by not as much as others want to believe. I contend as a major point in support of this is that Gilly covered more ground than Healy could (and Healy's footwork got him over a lot of ground). Being able to cover a lot of ground is so obviously an advantage for keepers it really shouldn't need defending.

Gilly definitely dropped some howlers. A few in 05 and that one against India mentioned stand out. But so did Healy. https://youtu.be/uN3q4tYhk04 is just awful. Feet doing nothing. Wade would have been embarrassed. Yeah it was the end of his career, but you're kidding yourself if you think it was only at the end he ever ****ed up.

When you compare Healy and Gilchrist you are talking about two of the best ever behind the stumps. Differences are by degree.

 

[Zinzan]

tbf taking Warne's opinion seriously on most matters is asking for pain.

But I've also conceded Healy was probably better than Gilly, just by not as much as others want to believe. I contend as a major point in support of this is that Gilly covered more ground than Healy could (and Healy's footwork got him over a lot of ground). Being able to cover a lot of ground is so obviously an advantage for keepers it really shouldn't need defending.

Gilly definitely dropped some howlers. A few in 05 and that one against India mentioned stand out. But so did Healy. https://youtu.be/uN3q4tYhk04 is just awful. Feet doing nothing. Wade would have been embarrassed. Yeah it was the end of his career, but you're kidding yourself if you think it was only at the end he ever ****ed up.

When you compare Healy and Gilchrist you are talking about two of the best ever behind the stumps. Differences are by degree.

I knew someone would link that drop against the Windies if Healy came up, because I watched the highlights of that Test recently and was really surprised since it's the first time I've seen Healy drop one. I'm sure there's others, but that's the only one I've seen.

Gilchrist was a fine keeper in his own right and underrated, but I do think he's clearly a level below the very best glovemen like the Healy and Knotts of this world.

Even in terms of recent Australian keepers, he'd be below Rod Marsh as well as Healy wouldn't he?

 

[adub]

Gilchrist was a fine keeper in his own right and underrated, but I do think he's clearly a level below the very best glovemen like the Healy and Knotts of this world.

Even in terms of recent Australian keepers, he'd be below Rod Marsh as well as Healy wouldn't he?

I'm pretty sure nothing I've said disputes the first line. I'd have Knott above Healy pretty clearly and Healy above Gilchrist, but Healy was excellent and Gilly not far behind at all.

Marsh and Gilly as about equal with Gilly maybe shading him is about right I reckon but SFA in it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I knew someone would link that drop against the Windies if Healy came up, because I watched the highlights of that Test recently and was really surprised since it's the first time I've seen Healy drop one. I'm sure there's others, but that's the only one I've seen.

Gilchrist was a fine keeper in his own right and underrated, but I do think he's clearly a level below the very best glovemen like the Healy and Knotts of this world.

Even in terms of recent Australian keepers, he'd be below Rod Marsh as well as Healy wouldn't he?

Yeah I don't think anyone would claim Gilchrist is in the very upper echelon of keepers. There are definitely many throughout history that are superior

 

[adub]

Yeah I don't think anyone would claim Gilchrist is in the very upper echelon of keepers. There are definitely many throughout history that are superior

I wouldn't go as far as to say MANY. Hard to judge say pre 70s as I didn't see them, but Gilchrist is easily in the top half dozen since 70 I'd say, and a good enough shout for top 3/4. That's pretty rarefied company seeing as we're including Knotty and Heals in that.