Put these five players in order

[Burgey]

Boon
Martyn
Taylor
M Waugh
Slater

Think so too with possibly swapping Taylor and Martyn, but the former is a Liberal so he gets nothing from me.

 

[thierry henry]

I think Harmison ends up being downgraded by some because his poor was very poor - at least with Flintoff you had a good idea what you got, and even on the days he didn't take wickets he seemed a threat and would hold his end up.

Sure, that just feels like very much a "swings and roundabouts" "6 of one and half a dozen of the other" etc type argument to me. If Harmison was that much worse at his worst and still ended up with superior output then his best must have been that much better.

tbh I've never quite been able to get my head around the perception of Flintoff as a bowler. It generally feels as though the numbers just don't make sense to people and so they make some fairly contradictory claims to explain them. On one hand he is rated highly because he "had a lot of ability" and was "dynamic" at his best, yet in a comparison with someone like Harmison his inferior numbers are explained away by saying he wasn't that dynamic or didn't have as much ability but was "steady".

I think probably the fairest conclusion to make about Flintoff's career as a test bowler was that he was steady and only moderately effective as a wicket taker but that on his day he was fast and intimidating- but on other days he was brisk, bowled a heavy ball but was a little too straight up and down to really roll through batting line-ups. But that just feels like it's so much less than what people WANT to say about him.

 

[Zinzan]

Today's five are batsmen

Mark Waugh (8029 runs at 41.81)
Mark Taylor (7525 at 43.49)
David Boon (7422 at 43.65)
Michael Slater (5312 at 42.83)
Damien Martyn (4406 at 46.37)

What about these 5 useful Test bowling allrounders, all from approximately the same era?

Dominic Cork (18 bat,, 29 ball)
Craig White (24 bat, 37 ball)
Dion Nash (23 bat, 28 ball)
Chris Lewis (23 bat, 37 ball)
Alex Tudor (19 bat, 34 ball)

 

[BoyBrumby]

I'm surprised Nash's batting average is so high. Always thought of him as a useful tailender rather than an allrounder.

Awesome bowler though; ran through us like a castor oil curry in 94. Martyr to injuries though, wasn't he?

&, despite the statistical evidence to the contrary, White was really a batting allrounder. Played mostly at six and (when Stewart had the gloves) seven. Sent it down at a fair old clip though; laziest run up for a 90mph bowler I've ever seen. No wonder his back was a disaster area, really.

Actually Lewis and Tudor had their fair share of injuries too, both real and imagined in their cases. The Staffordshire boy by far the most robust of the quintet. One of the all time great appealers too, was Corky. Never die wondering, would our Dom.

Anyhoo:

Nash
Cork
White
Lewis
Tudor

 

[Zinzan]

I'm surprised Nash's batting average is so high. Always thought of him as a useful tailender rather than an allrounder.

Awesome bowler though; ran through us like a castor oil curry in 94. Martyr to injuries though, wasn't he?

&, despite the statistical evidence to the contrary, White was really a batting allrounder. Played mostly at six and (when Stewart had the gloves) seven. Sent it down at a fair old clip though; laziest run up for a 90mph bowler I've ever seen. No wonder his back was a disaster area, really.

Actually Lewis and Tudor had their fair share of injuries too, both real and imagined in their cases. The Staffordshire boy by far the most robust of the quintet. One of the all time great appealers too, was Corky. Never die wondering, would our Dom.

Anyhoo:

Nash
Cork
White
Lewis
Tudor

Nash's batting average did push out in his last couple of years with a couple of big unbeaten 50s, but for the majority of his batting career he averaged around 20 IIRC.

I think I'd rate them similarly

Nash
Cork
Lewis
White
Tudor

I think Cork was an underrated cricketer though and very close to Nash, the latter shading him slightly on batting in the end.

 

[Zinzan]

^ I also recall a time when Chris Lewis was going to be the next big thing in English cricket, before he fading away only for his name to pop up again in 2008 for the wrong reasons.

 

[stephen]

Harmison was a worse version of Johnson. Absolute gun on his good days and utter filth on his bad days.

Steve Waugh referred to him as the "white West Indian" due to his height and pace and really rated his talent. He was memorably woeful at times and didn't peak in his late career like Johnson so won't be remembered the same way. But they were remarkably similar in how their careers panned out.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Nash
Cork
White
Tudor
Lewis

Lewis was the most talented so is placed last for getting nowhere near that potential.

 

[morgieb]

Nash
Cork
White
Lewis
Tudor

 

[vic_orthdox]

It's tempting to have Martyn first, because he was a joy to watch, but he did play in a very batsman friendly era, was surrounded by world class talent and didn't really establish himself until the Windies and Pakistani big beasts were on the way out.

& There was very serious talk about Tubby being dropped before the 1997 Ashes (from memory Chappelli was typically vociferous) as he'd gone 20-ish tests without a ton. If he wasn't the skipper I think the selectors might've pulled the plug.

I'm probably biased because he is l'homme Australis in excelsis, but Boonie did an awful lot of heavy lifting in his teams, so he gets the nod.

Boon
Martyn
Waugh jr.
Slater
Taylor

Martyn's series in Sri Lanka and India, leading us to winning series, is what elevates him for me.

 

[Howe_zat]

ne of the all time great appealers too, was Corky. Never die wondering, would our Dom.

Now that is how you appeal, kids.

Big distinction betwen the two that were good bowlers and the three that weren't here. White was much more an allrounder though.

Cork
Nash
White
Lewis
Tudor

I'm not really one to extrapolate an injury-ridden career into a longer one just because. It's harsh but not being able to get on the park is a significant factor in being less good.

 

[Zinzan]

As test batsmen discounting Stewart's keeping skills.

Stephen Fleming (40)
Michael Atherton (37)
Nasser Hussain (37)
Nathan Astle (37)
Alec Stewart (39)

 

[91Jmay]

If we are just going on batsmen Stewy scored nearly 4000 runs @ 46 as a pure bat. Would be the best for mine.

Alec Stewart
Stephen Fleming
Michael Atherton
Nathan Astle
Nasser Hussain

for me.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Stewart
Hussain
Fleming
Atherton
Astle

 

[Zinzan]

Fleming
Stewart
Hussain
Atherton
Astle

for me.

Atherton & Astle both get slightly overrated for almost opposite reasons.

 

[sledger]

Alex Tudor wasn't really an allrounder tbh.

He was, however, a total gun. Saw him in Waterloo Station once. Was rocking a pair of shades. Cool as ice.

 

[sledger]

Haha, just did a quick Google search and discovered he now runs his own coaching company. His website describes him as "One of the most intimidating English fast bowlers of his generation".

 

[Burgey]

Sadly that's probably right.

 

[Burgey]

Though I should say the way Lee bowled at him in Perth in the lead up to hitting him was appalling.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Haha, just did a quick Google search and discovered he now runs his own coaching company. His website describes him as "One of the most intimidating English fast bowlers of his generation".

It's up there with "one of the soberist Irishmen" or "one of Saudi Arabia ' s premier downhill skiers" as accolades go.

As for the latest five, Stewie shades Flem for me. The estimable Kiwi skipper slightly hamstrung by his faintly rubbish conversion rate. Alec did have a real weakness against spin, but worked very hard to find a way to cope and was imperious against pace; by some distance the best English puller and hooker of his generation.

I'll give Nass the bronze, his average took a real hit during the early days of his captaincy when he seemed to attract bad decisions like Instagram collects ****s. Spent a fair few tests batting with busted digits too; old poppadom fingers himself.

Astle played possibly the most awe inspiring innings I've ever seen, but otherwise struck one as a stylist rather than a player of substantial knocks.

Stewart
Fleming
Hussain
Atherton
Astle