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Rashid better than Warne: official

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Yeah but is there any good England batsman left who can bat at 5? I kinda thought Ballance would turn into that player but his game seems to have gone all Voges at the moment. :p

As I said maybe stick Butler at 7 and drop Ball. It would just be weird for one of the top 5 sides to pick a #7 specialist #intent bat though.
 

flibbertyjibber

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Well at the start of next season there is a huge opportunity for a couple of people to lay claim to a batting spot. You would think that the side will be this...

Cook
Hameed
Root
????
????
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Broad
Anderson


We may possibly have Rashid and move Moeen up to 5 but there is at least one batting spot open to take so the likes of Clarke, Gubbins, Jennings, Borthwick, Bell-Drummond and any other young player on the radar can grab a place with a strong start to the season.
 

Groundking

International Debutant
I'd go with something like this:

Cook
Hameed
Root
????
Bairstow
Stokes
Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

Bairstow has been our best bat over the past 12 months, it's time he starts batting in the top 5, but I don't want to take the gloves off of him, so 5 really should be the highest he bats.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Bairstow at 5 for me too, otherwise Stokes will look 40 by the end of next season.

Which might also be because he's a ginger, but still...
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Well at the start of next season there is a huge opportunity for a couple of people to lay claim to a batting spot. You would think that the side will be this...

Cook
Hameed
Root
????
????
Stokes
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

We may possibly have Rashid and move Moeen up to 5 but there is at least one batting spot open to take so the likes of Clarke, Gubbins, Jennings, Borthwick, Bell-Drummond and any other young player on the radar can grab a place with a strong start to the season.
If going for a single spinner, can Rashid be a better option than Moeen? Nah, probably not.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Cannot believe you guys are so intent to let Stokes rot at 6. Guy oozes talent and ability with the bat. Not just the natural variety either. Has shown he has a good head on his shoulders as a batsman and can adapt and bat according to pitch, situation, bowler etc. If he is not your #2 middle order batsman, then there must be a genius hidden in England FC cricket somewhere. To me, your best batsmen need to bat as close to the top of the order as possible. That means, you go:


Cook
Hameed
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
XXXX / Moeen
XXXX / Moeen
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson


Easily the best side you can put out and the middle order bats bat in the order of their ability. Just need to get into Cook's head that Moeen is his 5th bowler and Stokes his 6th. Maybe you guys find a good #6 or #7 or you play Buttler or Billings and slowly transition Bairstow to a specialist bat. IDK. Or you unearth someone better than your top 5 and then push everyone a spot down.

Is Samit Patel batting good enough to play as a specialist bat? Will solve a lot of your problems if he was good right now.
 

flibbertyjibber

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If going for a single spinner, can Rashid be a better option than Moeen? Nah, probably not.
Not sure we would pick Rashid over Moeen yet as a single spinner. Might be a better option for ashes though given how off spinners do badly there and his weakness to the short ball.
 

harsh.ag

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I mean England already would have four pacers in Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes. It's not like there are many batsmen fighting for middle order spots, and Stokes is better than all of them anyways.

Rashid may actually help win matches on fourth and fifth days. Which is probably less true for the extra batsmen England are likely to pick. Plus it allows Stokes to be more of a batsman and bowl less. Win win imo.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
cook
hameed
root
stokes
bairstow
buttler/duckett/thorpe/hussain whoever the hell you want
ali
woakes
rashid
broad
anderson

i'd still like to see duckett come back in despite his horror show in india. there's a lot to work with there.

i agree 100% with HB that stokes needs to bat up the order. he has the talent and there is no one else worth bothering with right now.
 
Last edited:

Furball

Evil Scotsman
He would but do we need 2 spinners in the side in May?

Do we even need 1?
You can afford it though because Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes can play.

I don't see how it hurts to have a leggie in the side, even if he's only getting 10 overs an innings in the early season.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Am fine with that if Moeen can justify his spot in the top 7, personally feel it is him or Buttler at 7 come the summer as the sort of 'extra' player, although would give Buttler the gloves in that scenario. We can hope that Jennings does well in which case he can bat 3 and Root to 4, then Bairstow, Stokes, Moeen/Buttler.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
People calling for Stokes to bat higher are undervaluing his bowling and probably overrating (slightly) his batting, he is one of those truly special cricketers who can be a genuine all-rounder, 6 is perfect for him.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
You can afford it though because Anderson, Broad, Woakes and Stokes can play.

I don't see how it hurts to have a leggie in the side, even if he's only getting 10 overs an innings in the early season.
If his fielding weren't so bad there'd be even more case to pick him and play 4 and 2 all the time.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
People calling for Stokes to bat higher are undervaluing his bowling and probably overrating (slightly) his batting, he is one of those truly special cricketers who can be a genuine all-rounder, 6 is perfect for him.

I dont think so. How many visiting batsmen have scored 250+ in an innings in South Africa in the last 25 years? If anything, I see many on this forum overrate (slightly) his bowling. I mean, he is good and sharp and has all the toys (inswing, outswing, reverse, bouncer, yorker) but he is not very consistent, at least from what I saw in this series. There is always a poor ball on the way coz he is trying too hard too soon. And that is fine if he is a batting allrounder. And it works for him coz that is precisely the way Cook uses him. He is his last throw of the dice most of the time and that is why he seems to make things happen regardless of how flat the pitch is or how well the batsmen are playing. He keeps mixing things up, there are good balls and bad balls and there is no real pattern and it puts batsmen off sometimes. I think the sooner you move him to 4, the better it is for him and the team. You are kidding yourself if you dont think he is the second best middle order batsman you have.
 

Pothas

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I just don't think you are going to make Stokes into Kallis, he is a totally different cricketer, very fine batsman for sure but there is nothing wrong with a very fine batsman batting at 6. I was all for Root moving to 3 at the time but Root at 4 followed by Baistow, Stokes and Moeen looks very strong to me, probably puts everyone in their best position. That leaves the top order to sort out but that has been the problem the whole time. Hameed looks like he is going to be a huge part in that, maybe Jennings could be the next, who knows but I don't think you just give up.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Stokes is so good it's almost a detriment. You feel his batting ability is wasted down at 6, but also that he is being under-bowled if he isn't bowling 15-20 overs a day.

It's a nice problem to have

I'd bat him at 6, play Moeen, Rashid and Woakes, and then play 2 more quicks and stack the batting. 4 quicks 2 spinners and batting depth for ages.
 

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