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South Africa team selection

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I know this maybe not for this thread sort of, but hopefuly more Saffas in the know might have an answer.

But does anyone know if Ray Jennings tried to make his son stay in South Africa to one day play for the Proteas.

Reason i am bringing this up, if you listening to his extremely poor commentating he always brings up patience etc. But then his son gets scooted off to England without really trying.
I am not sure if he would have made his son stay, as far as I`m aware Keaton already had ties with Durham through his father before he even played locally in SA at franchise level, and has been pretty loyal. My guess is he had a choice and went for Durham. Why? Who knows. Could be politics (don`t think so), could be personal family ties or even he just preferred England.
 

Marius

International Debutant
I am not sure if he would have made his son stay, as far as I`m aware Keaton already had ties with Durham through his father before he even played locally in SA at franchise level, and has been pretty loyal. My guess is he had a choice and went for Durham. Why? Who knows. Could be politics (don`t think so), could be personal family ties or even he just preferred England.
If I had a son who had the potential to play international cricket, and had dual SA-British citizenship, I would tell him to try his luck in the UK, no question.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Proteas will 'never be picked' on colour | Sport24

Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. But to be fair, nobody who has been selected recently can be said to be there for any other reason than cricketing ones.

It'll be really interesting to see who gets left out for AB when he comes back. I think Cook and Duminy are most under threat, but I would prefer keeping Cook around. Duminy is far too inconsistent.
The truth is that CSA has always pushed transformation without compromising the SA team given chances to players of colour at SA A level, but have never picked somebody (so far) that did not deserve to be in SA squad. Recently I think they are pushing Rabada, Bavuma and Andile into national setup earlier than they normally would, but all of them are international grade. They also pushed deKock when we needed a wicket keeper/batsmen (sorry Kuhn and Vilas).

Duminy`s consistency is so very frustrating and he keeps himself going with an occasional good innings. But even though Cook scored that ton I would not complain whoever of these 2 got left out. Cooks technique is not great for international level but he may come good given time, but he may not and just as easily fail. And whatever is said he is 30+ of age. I would be quite happy if they dropped both Cook and Duminy and brought Rillee and de Bruyn into the squad/team, think they are far better long term prospects at the moment. Markram carries on playing like he is.... well then.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
If I had a son who had the potential to play international cricket, and had dual SA-British citizenship, I would tell him to try his luck in the UK, no question.
Better chance to get in the English team :) ... Seriously I would as well but not for cricketing reasons.
 

Bahseph

State Captain
I read in the newspaper that Morkel is not being considered for selection for the first two Tests against SL. Apparently he still has back issues.

So its safe to assume it's going to be Philander , Rabada and Abbot as the pacers. I hope Keshav gets a go above Shamsi for this series. He will definitely do the containing role better and offer us a good no.9.
 

Slifer

International Captain
Here's my question if/when Steyn and or Morkel return to full fitness, what will their attack look like? Who to leave out? Why not go for an all pace attack if the four are your best bowlers...
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Here's my question if/when Steyn and or Morkel return to full fitness, what will their attack look like? Who to leave out? Why not go for an all pace attack if the four are your best bowlers...
Morkel won`t make it in front of Abbott, Rabada, Philander. Steyn is a tough one, probably replace Abbott, but it will be a long time before that happens. Maybe the series in England? 4 seamers option will be based on conditions. Maharaj has been pretty good and adds extra batting, which is always good. SA like a spinner in the team. If they did go 4 man pace attack then Duminy`s spot would be guaranteed, I don`t like that idea.
 

Slifer

International Captain
And this is coming from a West Indian btw, but if they did decide to field any combinatio of the following: Rabada, Steyn, Philander, Abott/Morkel then their bowling attack would rival maybe any in history. Or is it too early to make that call. Steyn is equal to Marshall IMO in greatness, Rabada covers for Holding, Philander for Garner (?). Abott or Morkel would probably be equal to any 4th bowler that the great WI teams had (Roberts and Walsh excepted)...
 

CapeTown Guy

School Boy/Girl Captain
I appreciate the sentiment, but wouldn't Morkel be a better comparison to Garner, albeit a much ****ter one. I've always felt Morkel is more of an Ambrose-lite though.

Those to add: I think Morkel has been a fine servant of SA cricket as a good foil for Steyn and later Philander too. On the odd occasion that he has had to fill in as the 'main man' he's never really imposed himself. He just isnt as confrontational a character as the other two. In a short space of time, Rabada has shown that he has for more tricks up his sleave, and although a bit raw, a more complete bowler.
 
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Slifer

International Captain
I was matching up the bowlers in terms of greatness/effectiveness tbh. Marshall and Steyn undisputed atg. Rabada and Philander aren't close to their career ends but both show the potential to be greats ala Holding and Garner. Morkel has the height and intimidatory factor of a Amby or Garner but he doesn't have the numbers or their effectiveness, hence why he's more aptly compared to any fourth bowler (for the West Indies) from THAT era.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
Depends which WI side we're talking about. There was a period of time when the 4th bowler was Croft or a very young Marshall, with the other 3 being Roberts Holding and Garner. I would say that's pretty much unparallelled. A few years later, when the 4th bowler was Eldine Baptiste or one of the others who tends to get forgotten, then maybe.
 
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Slifer

International Captain
Well yeah, I'm talking about a WI attack where the 4th bowler was someone like a Baptiste or Patrick Patterson etc.
 

Marius

International Debutant
Cricket South Africa admit they are powerless to stop England player drain

• English counties proving a magnet for talented young Test players
• International careers forfeit when they are under contract in England

Exclusive by Will Macpherson

Monday 12 December 2016 21.23 GMT

Cricket South Africa has admitted that it is powerless to prevent players joining English counties on Kolpak deals, as recent Test cricketers continue to turn their backs on international careers. The loss of high-quality cricketers in the country has fuelled fears of a player drain, similar to that which the Springboks rugby union side has faced.

At least five players who have played Tests since November 2015 have joined or are set to join English counties as they flee quotas, seek better pay and look to move before Brexit could nullify the EU ruling that allows South Africans to play in England as non-overseas players.

The Guardian understands that the off‑spinner Dane Piedt, who played against England this year, and at least one squad member for the recent tour of Australia (although not one who played in the Test series, which the Proteas won 2-1) are seeking to move to English cricket. Kolpak players can play domestic cricket in South Africa in the English winter, but forfeit their international careers while under contract in England.
Faf du Plessis becomes South Africa Test captain after AB de Villiers resigns
Read more

Already, the spinner Simon Harmer has joined Essex, Stiaan van Zyl has moved to Sussex and Derbyshire have signed Hardus Viljoen to spearhead their pace attack; all three players are in their 20s. In October, the former under-19 international Colin Ackermann joined Leicestershire, too.

Kolpak players in county cricket have long been a contentious issue in that they dilute opportunities for England‑qualified players even though they raise the quality. In a 2008 game between Northamptonshire and Leicestershire, 12 of the 22 players were on Kolpak deals. As eligibility regulations have tightened, the number of players registered as Kolpaks has reduced in recent years, with the number between 3% and 4% during the 2016 season.

Piedt, who is 26 and played the most recent of his seven Tests in August, believes he is unlikely to be signed by a county as an overseas player and is therefore happy to play as a Kolpak. The paucity of high-quality spin in the County Championship means that, like Harmer, he is well placed to earn a deal, although he has not yet formally spoken to any counties.
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The arrangement provides players with greater job security, but also greater remuneration; with the Rand weak, Van Zyl – who played 12 Tests before being dropped in August – has a contract with Sussex that is understood to be worth roughly three times as much as his deal with the Cobras in Cape Town.

“We cannot restrain individuals from plying their trade,” Haroon Lorgat, the chief executive of Cricket South Africa, said. “Over and above our regular reviews of the domestic playing rules and regulations to ensure it is fit for purpose, we will continue to rather focus on making sure that we have the best systems to produce the best cricketers in numbers.

“We have realised a long time back that the world is a global village with people very mobile. Like in every other country and across every other profession, South African citizens will venture abroad to take advantage of stronger currencies and employment opportunities.

“This mobility affects all professions and is not limited to cricketers who ply their trade in English counties.”

The motivation to leave at this time is heightened by uncertainty over the perceived impact of Brexit. Players who have already signed Kolpak deals – Van Zyl and Viljoen are both contracted until 2019 – believe they will be unaffected, but that things could change in 2017.

“I have been told that players are choosing Kolpak deals now for fear of losing this opportunity once Brexit is implemented,” Lorgat said, but the ECB told the Guardian it was too early to know the impact of the referendum vote.

“Regarding the wider impact of Brexit,” said an ECB spokesperson, “it is too early to predict the outcome in this area. We await more information on the legal situation post-Brexit and will then need to hold further detailed discussions with our stakeholders, the government and other sporting bodies before we can comment further on the potential implications for cricket.”

Lorgat was less forgiving of those citing paths blocked by quotas and transformation targets for their departure. CSA this year introduced a system requiring national teams to contain an average (across a year) of six players of colour, two of whom would be black African. Piedt would be the first non-white player to sign a Kolpak deal since the new targets were brought in.

“Any player citing transformation or targets is looking for a soft excuse as he or she might not be prepared to work hard enough to fight for a place in our representative teams,” Lorgat said.

“We only select the best as was evident in our recent successes against Australia. You don’t whitewash Australia or beat them seven times in a row without choosing your best.”
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...st-player-drain-english-counties-kolpak-deals

Well, this is fairly concerning.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
This hurts our FC badly, similar to our superrugby. I think its money more than anything. I don`t get why the franchises get guys like Pietersen and Pollard in for the T20 series (probably costs a bundle) does not make the T20 more watchable. I know CSA keeps in the black, which is good, but I do think we need to bring more money into the game at FC level. Not that we could compete with the Eng clubs, but might keep more players in the country. Maybe the franchise sponsers need to step up more for the good of the game in SA. There is not a simple solution really.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
As I said in the SA-SL thread, think it's good, Faf should have been appointed from the beginning.

And can't believe Firdose thinks that Ramela or Markram are the two guys closest to a Test call up.
Markram maybe, but left field... (is there a SL/SA thread?). Ramela just no. Rillee next in line, no change for the first test from the line-up of last, unless I`ve missed some injuries.
 

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