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Thread: South Africa team selection

  1. #61
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend honestbharani's Avatar
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    I would say open with Amla and stick Faf at 3 and let AB bat at 5, where he really seems to boss it. And him being around will help in case the other end is blown open, coz he can accelerate and basically do a Lara with the tail enders which will frustrate the bowling side so so much.
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  2. #62
    Hall of Fame Member flibbertyjibber's Avatar
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    I guess the way Abbot has bowled here has all but ended Morkel's career. Being 5th in line now he will need a couple of injuries to regain his place as you wouldn't pick him ahead of Rabada, Philander or Abbot now and obviously if Steyn comes back he goes straight back in. Just hope from a watching point of view that they can stay fit now as they are great to watch.

  3. #63
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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  4. #64
    International Debutant anil1405's Avatar
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    South Africa have a busy schedule ahead of them for the next year or so and they will be needing a fifth seamer (since Steyn is out Morkel has gone up the pecking order) at some point for sure. Morkel does have a part to play for Proteas in the near future unless the team management decides there is another better option available to them.


  5. #65
    Cricket Web Staff Member Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    With Rabada demonstrating ability to carry out the role that Morkel had, Morkel should now focus on the LO teams. South African management/selection and Morkel need to have a talk and chalk out plans. With Steyn out, Philander's injury prone fitness, there is a considerable work load on Rabada so you do want to consider whether he needs to play all these bilateral ODIs and T20s and get carted around. Morkel on the other hand is an experienced LO bowler and I feel that he should be given the role to lead the LO bowling attack now along with Abbott. Steyn should give up on LO cricket, and Philander and Rabada alternate every now and then but Morkel and Abbott should be your two key LO bowlers.
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  6. #66
    International 12th Man Marius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    That article was one of those where much was written but nothing was said.

    Collecting a bunch of quotes and going over South Africa's recent captaincy history has not made me any more enlightened about who should skip the Test side.

  7. #67
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    It's a hard one, because I think De Villiers is a pretty average captain whereas Faf is quite good. However Faf is an average batsmen, who they may want to drop for quota reasons if he has a bad run vs. AB who is very good Test batsmen and largely undroppable.

  8. #68
    International Vice-Captain SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    A ramble about the SA team at the moment...

    Considering how well SA have done in Aus I was thinking that SA have been hugely underestimated, I had uncertainty about my teams batting but overall I thought it was a better team than many thought. However poor the Aus team is now, its never easy to go to Australia and win a test series, never mind so comprehensively. I was trying to figure out why SA were underestimated, imo.

    SA must have the best pace bowling attack in the world at the moment, argument could be made for England but think that SA 3rd seamer is stronger than Englands who have the advantage of Stokes. But the backup for SA is unbelievable, with Morkel and Abbott on the sidelines (assuming Steyn comes back). Duane Olivier I think will step up as well if needed. Our spin bowlers stocks are really good (sad to say that only after the Indian tour!) Maharaj has been brilliant in his role as a holding spinner. Shamsi will be a great option as an attacking spinner if and when needed. And we have a few options still sitting in SA. So overall SA bowling is exceptionally strong right now and for the foreseeable future.

    Our batting is still our greatest uncertainty, QDK at 7 has truly strengthened our batting, with Philander at 8 it means we no longer have a stupidly long tail. Bavuma has been a revelation and while not the most exciting of player has been pretty good, his temperament is the thing I like the most. I just hopes he starts converting 50`s into 100`s. Duminy and Faf are still, for me, our biggest uncertainties, both at times have shown brilliance and both have gone through very dry spells. Faf`s captaincy has been great, but he needs to score more runs to be ensured a place in the team. Duminy brings extra bowling option, but his batting has been so inconsistent. Amla is Amla... he gets to stay as long as he wants. Then we have Elgar and Cook. Elgar will stay, because of temperament again.. he scores ugly runs but importantly he wears down the new ball more often than not. Cook I can`t see him being a long term solution to our opening problems, even though he probably deserves a better chance. Ruthlessly we have better batsmen sitting on the side lines right now. With deVillers still coming into the team and Rillee; de Bruyn has not even gotten a call up yet considering how well he has done for 3 seasons now. We still have 2 x SA atg`s in Amla and deVillers, and QDK showing some real potential as an atg. With some solid batting in and around these players SA has a no better or worse batting line-up than any other team in the world at the moment, not comparable to the atg great teams or having Smith/Kallis but not a terrible batting line-up either. The biggest concern is we don`t know who our best top 6 really are? Should Duminy/Faf be playing? before Rillee or even de Bruyn? Experience counts but that does not make them your best players.

    SA also have no genuine test allrounders right now, but with QDK at 7 I`m less concerned with that, and some seriously talented young allrounders coming up that should help.

    So now I go back to my original question, why were so many (including SA commentators/public) so negative about our test team, firstly I realized that because SA had lost Smith and Kallis (2x SA atg`s) the immediate assumption was we would be poor. Initially we were alright, but the Indian tour really hammered us (not unsurprisingly), with Amla in shocking form, and we brought in a low confidence team against England with some poor selections and were beaten. Which was a big disappointment. Secondly, I think that people didn`t really realize how good some of our young players actually are, QDK and Rabada are probably the 2 most talented youngsters that have made an appearance in international cricket in the last 2 years. Third and importantly, people keep hearing about the quota system and assume we are picking poor players. Maharaj was a perfect example, nobody knew him, he bowled 3 overs, and was immediately assumed to be a quota player. The fact he was probably the best domestic spinner last year became irrelevant. Bavuma`s original selection had a similar reaction. Philander is stupidly underestimated, quota is often mentioned and the incorrect assumption he always gets injured on flat tracks. He is a tubby irritating ****... but a really good tubby irritating ****. None of the players we have picked for SA, so far, have not deserved to be in the squad. We do not have a problem with players of 'colour' we do have a problem with 'black' players if Rabada or Bavuma get injured. But even when Steyn went home the selectors did not call up Andile or another player of colour they called up Pretorious, a bit of a surprise, but a white player. So people need to realize that at this stage because a player of 'colour' is in the team does not mean he does not deserve to be there.

    So what would I like to see from the SA team in the future. Firstly, I would like us to start winning home series; we have a pretty poor track record of this. We have done well overseas but have now lost to Aus and England at home and drew a series against India when we should have expected to win. I would also like us to decide what our middle order should be and stick with it for awhile. I think that Cook should be dropped for deVillers, not to sure who should open then. I like Bavuma at 6 even if he could open, pushing Amla up seems wrong and I`m not sure if Faf could open in tests? If Faf/Duminy does not make consistent runs by end of Sri Lanka tour, Rillee deserves a spot. I hope we do not try find a 5 man attack and bring in an allrounder that is not ready.
    I think that bad spell came from a period of insecurity with selections and then getting murdered on wickets in India that really did seem to target us. Elgar was getting bags of wickets before lunch on day 1 Mentally we were shot after that and then we dealt with injury blows and England hit us hard and got their most deserved victory against us since re-admission.

    I think the team need a freshness and they got it. Re-assessed goals and a player unity in the squad that got risen to new levels. We also needed leaders and communication on the field. After we lost Boucher we lost that edge in the field and I've noticed since Bouch worked with the SA team that QdK has become more vocal and cajoling.

    On cricketing talent I genuinely think we lucky to be finding these next generation players. A mix of picking talent early & going with it (QdK & Rabada) and others that had to work hard domestically to get where they are now (Elgar, Rossouw, Bavuma, Maharaj, Abbott etc)

    But in those dark times certain aspects in our batting were highlighted after Smith/Kallis' retirement. Duminy and Faf as senior players didn't stand up if Amla/AB failed. In India you felt like only Elgar and AB were standing up and batting time ? So I agree StephenDbsn than Faf and JP are still under spot light. I think we lucky in that Rossouw/Theunis are stroke-makers that could bat anywhere while Aiden Markram seems to be a young leader who wants to dominate at the crease but yet has a sound technique to score big hundreds. Almost Smith like besides batting looks of course. I would like to think that those are our 3 young batsman next in line. I think that is crucial to the system that we keep producing young batsman who then gain domestic experience and should be ready for internationals at 23,24,25. If Bavuma gets injured it looks like Zondo may over take Ramela for the call-up.

    I think we quite fortunate in our spin bowling situation. We had a bit searching to do here with Tahir, Piedt and Harmer but I genuinely believe we need to settle with Maharaj as he can ask questions but hold up an end at the same time. That is priceless in South Africa where we play the majority of our cricket but I've seen him bowl when there is turn on offer and he cans step up under pressure in Asia too. His batting is just another bonus that can make us stronger. Shamsi is the perfect x-factor spinner that if we require to play two front line spinners when we next go to Asia we are ready now. He is building his international experience in ODI's and I have to ask the question but how long will Tahir carry on in this format at 37 ? Both of them are about 26 now. Great ages to be our spinners for the next decade at least.

    All-rounders. I know Pretorius went now but if we looking for world class talent then we know Mulder could provide us with this role down the line. From a quota perspective I think we all hoping that Phehulkwayo kicks on and gains experience in ODI's.

    STEYN-PHILANDER-RABADA-ABBOTT-MORKEL
    rest at this stage
    MORRIS-PARNELL (but these guys need to step up when they get fit again because at 29 & 27 they getting to become older heads now.)
    After this lot I reckon it's about identifying the next young bowling talent. Stats shouldn't be everything here. We may have to pick them before they ready but would like them to learn around the legends above.


    Anyways we got 10 test matches in the next 8-9 months coming up after Adelaide so we got a bit of cricket.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 15-11-2016 at 06:50 AM.
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  9. #69
    International Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    I think we lucky in that Rossouw/Theunis are stroke-makers that could bat anywhere while Aiden Markram seems to be a young leader who wants to dominate at the crease but yet has a sound technique to score big hundreds. Almost Smith like besides batting looks of course. I would like to think that those are our 3 young batsman next in line. I think that is crucial to the system that we keep producing young batsman who then gain domestic experience and should be ready for internationals at 23,24,25. If Bavuma gets injured it looks like Zondo may over take Ramela for the call-up.
    Ramela must never play for SA test team! I hope they don`t choose Zonda unless he shows some real improvement, but stick with Rossouw and Theunis. Quota issues can still be sorted in LO stuff. Markram has to be looked at if he continues for the next year in current form, he is just to good.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    All-rounders. I know Pretorius went now but if we looking for world class talent then we know Mulder could provide us with this role down the line. From a quota perspective I think we all hoping that Phehulkwayo kicks on and gains experience in ODI's.

    STEYN-PHILANDER-RABADA-ABBOTT-MORKEL
    rest at this stage
    MORRIS-PARNELL (but these guys need to step up when they get fit again because at 29 & 27 they getting to become older heads now.)
    After this lot I reckon it's about identifying the next young bowling talent. Stats shouldn't be everything here. We may have to pick them before they ready but would like them to learn around the legends above.


    Anyways we got 10 test matches in the next 8-9 months coming up after Adelaide so we got a bit of cricket.
    Parnell/Morris can only play if Philander is injured and we need the extra bat. Andile would hopefully continue to do well. Mulder has to be another big pick within the next 2/3 years. I also think that we need to get these youngsters into, at least, the LO to get international experience. I still worry about Rabada`s workload. Good number of test matches for us and some great ones at that.... makes me happy
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  10. #70
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    Agree with most of the above two posts. I'd tell Faf to open and he can have the captaincy, and tell AB sorry, your mate is better at the job. You focus on being the star of the batting line-up instead coming in at 4.

    I disagree re Ramela/Zondo - from what I have seen of them they are miles away from Test quality.

  11. #71
    International Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapeTown Guy View Post
    Agree with most of the above two posts. I'd tell Faf to open and he can have the captaincy, and tell AB sorry, your mate is better at the job. You focus on being the star of the batting line-up instead coming in at 4.

    I disagree re Ramela/Zondo - from what I have seen of them they are miles away from Test quality.
    I`m not convinced of Faf opening so that we can keep his captaincy.. he needs to score more runs first. Right now Rossouw/Theunis are breathing down anybody`s necks, who does not score...
    Last edited by StephenZA; 15-11-2016 at 07:10 AM.

  12. #72
    International 12th Man Marius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapeTown Guy View Post
    Agree with most of the above two posts. I'd tell Faf to open and he can have the captaincy, and tell AB sorry, your mate is better at the job. You focus on being the star of the batting line-up instead coming in at 4.

    I disagree re Ramela/Zondo - from what I have seen of them they are miles away from Test quality.
    What happens when KG falls down the stairs and breaks his leg and Temba gets called away on an urgent mission to destroy the One Ring in Mordor.

    We're going to have to fill the quota somehow. I suppose Phehlukwayo wouldn't disgrace himself at Test level right now but Ramela and/or Zondo playing in a Test match is not impossible.

    If there weren't the political issues I would be confident that neither would get close to a Test cap, but those issues are there.
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  13. #73
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    Well, someone has to open with Elgar! Between Faf/Amla/JP/Bavuma/AB I just think Faf is the best option, based purely on a hunch. Obviously there are targets that need meeting, I just hope there's another Bavuma/Rabada coming up through the ranks so we dont see Zondo/Ramela. I really dont rate either.

    And yes, hopefully Phehlukwayo continues developing. It means we can finally watch the Parnell ship sail out of the harbor never to be seen again.
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  14. #74
    International Vice-Captain SeamUp's Avatar
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    Ramela and Zondo are nowhere near international level that is for sure ! Just got to pray Temba's BIG HEART stays strong.

    Something else I meant to say was the variety we have. Small things like left-hand and right-hand batsman. Accumulators v Agressors. Finger spinner/Wrist spinner. Pace/Seam/Swing. Young up-and-coming batting all-rounder and a young up-and-coming bowling all-rounder. We just probably lacking a left-arm seamer.
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  15. #75
    International 12th Man Marius's Avatar
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    SeamUp, what's happened to Colin Ingram? Has he given up on SA cricket?

    EDIT: Never mind, I see he played this weekend for the Warriors.

    Didn't see him in the longer stuff though so was wondering.
    Last edited by Marius; 15-11-2016 at 07:31 AM.

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