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Thread: South Africa team selection

  1. #31
    Cricketer Of The Year AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    I wonder if they might go with Abbott for another reason - if they're worried about his fitness they might be concerned about him making a full five-day Test? And although we won the last Test match with three bowlers, there's no guarantee it'll happen again.

    So, perhaps Abbott has the inside track.

    So, I think the team will be the same as Perth, except Abbott in for Steyn.
    Another reason for why Abbott should get the nod ahead of Morkel. You dont want another bowler breaking down during the match.
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    International 12th Man Marius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Nah, both states suck imo. Somewhere in the middle is good.
    Yeah, fair point.

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    Cricketer Of The Year AndyZaltzHair's Avatar
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    Also since this is a team selection thread, I would really like to know the logic behind pushing a batsman (Bavuma) to opening slot. We know he has a big fighting heart but opening job is a special one and thats why we see so many openers rotated or being dropped over the course of the years from every team. I would like to know the statistical data but can assume we have seen more openers being dropped from the teams in history of cricket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

    Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

    Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

    I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
    I feel it has a lot to do with how you view the game. To these players it comes easy, and maybe adapting your tactics to out think a player slightly less talented than you becomes a little harder as they never had to worry about the little details of the game.


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    International Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    Also since this is a team selection thread, I would really like to know the logic behind pushing a batsman (Bavuma) to opening slot. We know he has a big fighting heart but opening job is a special one and thats why we see so many openers rotated or being dropped over the course of the years from every team. I would like to know the statistical data but can assume we have seen more openers being dropped from the teams in history of cricket.
    Numerous reasons.... he has opened in India last year and did a pretty good job and showed some guts considering the moral of the team at the time. SA don`t have any obvious outstanding candidates for an opening position right now (some new guys coming up, but not yet) and all our reserve/next in line are also middle order. Finally, unless Bavuma has a really bad run dropping him from the team will be difficult due to quotas, and to fit de Villers into the team we need to drop somebody. On form right now Cook would be the obvious choice. Could push QDK to open, but we really don`t want to be doing that at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

    Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

    Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

    I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
    I think this is a bit of a generalisation. Although I vehemently agree with the notion that 'your captain isn't necessarily your best player' it doesn't mean that it is seldom the case. Your captain should generally (IMO) be a pretty obvious pick. Most genuine captains have been such since they were very young. One very important thing though, when selecting your captain, is that they have to be firmly entrenched in your team. They do have to be a must pick. It's a very, very ordinary situation to be in when you're picking a player almost solely to captain (I'm thinking Khaled Mahmud style here). AFAIC Du Plessis is a must pick though, there is no way on this earth you'd leave him out for Duminy or Bavuma IMO.

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    I agree Cook has to go when ABDV comes back, but does not have to be Bavvuma, could also get Faf or Amla to open either.

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    When ab comes back then one of bavuma, de kock, faf or duminy need to open. It's such a good order that it's not even a massive risk to ask faf or bavuma to do the job. I think Riley could force his way in by the end of the year too

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    Faf to open... that is an interesting thought actually!

    Faf, Elgar, Amla, AB, JP, Bavuma, QdK,Vern, Maharaj, Rabada, Abbott seems alright to me. Got the lefty/righty thing at the top, and i suppose you could swap the middle order however you like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marius View Post
    The best player in the side is seldom the best captain.

    Most of the great captains in history have been players with technical or other limitations. Just off the top of my head, Smith, Border, Brearley (especially Brearley), Bacher, weren't especially talented players but excellent captains.

    Now absolutely brilliant players - like Botham, Lara, Sobers - generally failed as captains.

    I think Bradman may be an exception, but I am open to correction.
    Fair point, let Du Plessis deal with the responsibility of being captain and let De Villiers take the mantle of star batsman and all the pressure that goes with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapeTown Guy View Post
    Faf to open... that is an interesting thought actually!

    Faf, Elgar, Amla, AB, JP, Bavuma, QdK,Vern, Maharaj, Rabada, Abbott seems alright to me. Got the lefty/righty thing at the top, and i suppose you could swap the middle order however you like.
    Asking one of them to open is better than the other option, leaving one of them out. Faf has also scored a big majority of his runs at 3 so it's not a massive jump for him

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    Bring back Albie Morkel
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    Numerous reasons.... he has opened in India last year and did a pretty good job and showed some guts considering the moral of the team at the time. SA don`t have any obvious outstanding candidates for an opening position right now (some new guys coming up, but not yet) and all our reserve/next in line are also middle order. Finally, unless Bavuma has a really bad run dropping him from the team will be difficult due to quotas, and to fit de Villers into the team we need to drop somebody. On form right now Cook would be the obvious choice. Could push QDK to open, but we really don`t want to be doing that at the moment.
    Personally I am a great believer of giving a player extended run once they make it into international arena. Otherwise the obvious question should be asked why the hell selectors or whoever responsible brought him in the team in the first place (not ruling out fragile cricketers who just can't cope so not blaming the guys only).Transition from domestic to international level is never going to be easy. Cook has some technical deficiencies for everyone to see but he made truck loads of runs in domestic. He'll now have to work on that and make the best out of what he's capable of by adjusting. He's not young anymore and once you are into international level, its not the right time to completely overhaul your technique. I can assume SA's domestic competition is no muck so Cook basically does not need to change many things probably. Bringing him and dropping right now will be the worst. Bavuma was made to open because of constant failure of Van Zyl in India against Ashwin and he himself preferred playing in middle order iirc. Only one test has been over now and I don't see the point of dropping Cook yet. You mentioned about quota but with Amla, Rabada, Duminy, Maharaj and Philander it's fulfilled and I feel ashamed that we are talking about this. So if Abdv returns in the series, I dont see who can be dropped other than the gun Bavuma.
    Last edited by AndyZaltzHair; 08-11-2016 at 12:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyZaltzHair View Post
    Personally I am a great believer of giving a player extended run once they make it into international arena. Otherwise the obvious question should be asked why the hell selectors or whoever responsible brought him in the team in the first place (not ruling out fragile cricketers who just can't cope so not blaming the guys only).Transition from domestic to international level is never going to be easy. Cook has some technical deficiencies for everyone to see but he made truck loads of runs in domestic. He'll now have to work on that and make the best out of what he's capable of by adjusting. He's not young anymore and once you are into international level, its not the right time to completely overhaul your technique. I can assume SA's domestic competition is no muck so Cook basically does not need to change many things probably. Bringing him and dropping right now will be the worst. Bavuma was made to open because of constant failure of Van Zyl in India against Ashwin and he himself preferred playing in middle order iirc. Only one test has been over now and I don't see the point of dropping Cook yet. You mentioned about quota but with Amla, Rabada, Duminy, Maharaj and Philander it's fulfilled and I feel ashamed that we are talking about this. So if Abdv returns in the series, I dont see who can be dropped other than the gun Bavuma.

    The issue is with the quota system, Cook is the most disposable of the white players in the side. Its not a nice thing to say I admit, but whether people like or not the quota system needs to be respected now that it is here.

    Its somewhat similar for the white players on the sidelines, but for the likes of Rilee and De Bruyn they have time on their side when they wait for the likes of ABDV and Faf etc retire.

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    Be interesting to see bavuma's scores in every test so far. I swear he's made a decent score in every game.

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