• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

South Africa team selection

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Very nice article indeed.

Second time I've heard of the CSA spin camp today but haven't seen any details released. Think this will be the 3rd or 4th one now.

Cobras players going are Jason Smith, Aviwe Mgijima, Dane Piedt, George Linde and Kyle Simmonds.

Now we know Markram is another.
Assume Smith and Markram going to improve batting skills.....

Yhyh we know , Parney is like a sore rash that never wants to go away. I think all teams have them around the world. :laugh:
Parnell and Duminy are more than a rash,,,, you can`t just take some cream to get rid of them it is probably going to involve some not very nice surgery at this point.
 

Marius

International Debutant
Yhyh we know , Parney is like a sore rash that never wants to go away. I think all teams have them around the world. :laugh:
Assume Smith and Markram going to improve batting skills.....

Parnell and Duminy are more than a rash,,,, you can`t just take some cream to get rid of them it is probably going to involve some not very nice surgery at this point.
Parnell 'dabs' after taking a wicket sometimes. You can't buy that kind of player. I say keep him in the team.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Read that article. Pretty good opinions particularly from Bouch.

I think they could take both Cook and Markram.

All the SA sides are supposedly selected by next week but may only be released at the end of the month.

Add Shaun von Berg to the CSA spin camp.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Read that article. Pretty good opinions particularly from Bouch.

I think they could take both Cook and Markram.

All the SA sides are supposedly selected by next week but may only be released at the end of the month.

Add Shaun von Berg to the CSA spin camp.
Good to hear... this is what gives me hope for SA cricket. Despite all the nonsense and politics, opportunity is still given if you perform well.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
And I just want to say; that people keep pointing out that players are leaving because of quotas in this country... but the big reality, right now, in SA is that quota or not people with skills are choosing to leave; And this is due to a whole range of political and economic reasons. If quota was the only reasons for these players to leave then I believe a lot more would be staying. In a strange way quotas are a symptom of bigger issues not the issue itself....
 
Last edited:

akilana

International 12th Man
He was a shoe into the ODI side at that point and he probably would have replaced Cook in the test side.... he left just at the point he was getting into the 1st team.
He should have played tests already. More talented than Bavuma and done more in sunfoil and for A side. He deserved a go at the expense of useless JP.
 

akilana

International 12th Man
And I just want to say; that people keep pointing out that players are leaving because of quotas in this country... but the big realistic reality, right now, in SA is that quota or not people with skills are choosing to leave; And this is due to a whole range of political and economic reasons. If quota was the only reasons for these players to leave then I believe a lot more would be staying. In a strange way quotas are a symptom of bigger issues not the issue itself....
But KP, Russow and Abbott left mainly because of quota preventing them from being given a fair chance.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
But KP, Russow and Abbott left mainly because of quota preventing them from being given a fair chance.
That was KP`s excuse... really he wanted what he wanted when he wanted it... he had to play a few seasons of English cricket and turned into a great batsmen, if he had been patient and done that in SA he would have also made the SA team. Quota was not a major issue when he was coming into cricket. Russouw and Abbott had contracts that where paying the same sort of money that they get in English cricket and where starting to make the SA teams... would Morkel have kept Abbott out, doubt it. Would he be upset for being left out for Steyn... would Olivier have been picked in the squad if SA cricket was basing everything around quotas. I already spoke about RR. I am not saying quotas do not have an effect I am saying that it is a small part of a much bigger consideration; deciding to move your family to Eng or Aus/NZ is not just about quotas.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
Abbott didn't leave because of quotas. At the time he made his decision (i.e. middle of last year), he was the fifth-choice test bowler, behind Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Rabada and only getting opportunities to play through injuries. That's not quotas, that's losing out in the competition for places against some very good bowlers.

And while he did get more opportunities in the ODI side, with everyone available he would probably have been at best third in line behind Steyn and Morkel. So his place may not have been as secure as he would have liked, contributing to his deciding to go.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
He was a shoe into the ODI side at that point and he probably would have replaced Cook in the test side.... he left just at the point he was getting into the 1st team.
I'm not sure if Rossouw was qutie a shoe-in for the ODI side. He always seemed to be the player who came in when there was injury to someone else, but was always dropped again when that player came back.

As for tests, I think he had the misfortune to be injured at times when there was an opening in the side, leading to other players making their debut and then being given an extended run. If so, there's an element of bad luck there and not simply "quotas kept him out".
 

akilana

International 12th Man
Abbott didn't leave because of quotas. At the time he made his decision (i.e. middle of last year), he was the fifth-choice test bowler, behind Steyn, Philander, Morkel and Rabada and only getting opportunities to play through injuries. That's not quotas, that's losing out in the competition for places against some very good bowlers.

And while he did get more opportunities in the ODI side, with everyone available he would probably have been at best third in line behind Steyn and Morkel. So his place may not have been as secure as he would have liked, contributing to his deciding to go.
He made his debut in 2014 or something. He was the 4th choice. How did he become 5th choice? Why was he left out of the WC semi?
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
He made his debut in 2014 or something. He was the 4th choice. How did he become 5th choice?
Because Rabada came onto the scene and has been deemed better than him. Granted, Rabada may have been fast-tracked because he's black, but even if he hadn't, Abbott still would have only been fourth choice and not a test regular.

Why was he left out of the WC semi?
We don't know for certain. There may very well have been an element of quotas in it, but Philander had been preferred ahead of Abbott at the start of the tournament, and the general South African selection policy is for a first-choice player with a short-term injury to come back into the side when fit, so his return wasn't out of the ordinary. Philander is the better batsman, so team balance may have also played a role.

But even without Philander, that would still leave Steyn and Morkel (maybe Rabada as well) ahead of Abbott in the ODI pecking order.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
The WC semi-final was a sore point and it was admitted later that Philander went in ahead of Abbott for quota reasons...... and yes it effected Abbott.

@akilana do you think that quota is the only reasons these SA players are leaving? .....this whole discussion has been restarted, for the billionth time, cause I mentioned that CSA gives me hope because they still give players who show good FC form a chance, that was it, and you made a comment regarding Rillee. I was not saying that quota does not effect players or effect the game in SA, particularly the domestic game... but to simply to imply that all the players that leave, is down to just quota is naive. As I said earlier it a a symptom of much larger issues in SA, politically and economically.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant
The WC semi-final was a sore point and it was admitted later that Philander went in ahead of Abbott for quota reasons......
Ah, OK. I must have missed that.

But quotas aside, there was still a case to be made for playing Philander, which is where the quota issue gets a bit murky. Yes, players are being picked because of their skin colour, but they're also being picked on the basis of their ability, and for every player who makes it to the South African side there are definite cricketing reasons behind their selection. We might disagree with these reasons being sufficient for those players to make the side, but disagreeing with selectors' decisions happens everywhere, not just South Africa.

@akilana do you think that quota is the only reasons these SA players are leaving? .....this whole discussion has been restarted, for the billionth time, cause I mentioned that CSA gives me hope because they still give players who show good FC form a chance, that was it, and you made a comment regarding Rillee. I was not saying that quota does not effect players or effect the game in SA, particularly the domestic game... but to simply to imply that all the players that leave, is down to just quota is naive. As I said earlier it a a symptom of much larger issues in SA, politically and economically.
And let's face it, it's not as though Rossouw is the first player ever to have been overlooked by selectors (for any country), not will he be the last. Seemingly deserving players get passed over all the time, for a myriad of reasons. So yes, in South Africa quotas can potentially be one of those reasons, they're hardly the major factor that people like to make them out to be.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
When you can only fight for 5 spots that surely has to effect your thinking as a white player ?


County update

Cook 2
Edgar 34
Parnell 51 not out
Philander 17 0-57 - I hope he finds his mojo soon
 

Stefan9

International Debutant
Because Rabada came onto the scene and has been deemed better than him. Granted, Rabada may have been fast-tracked because he's black, but even if he hadn't, Abbott still would have only been fourth choice and not a test regular.



We don't know for certain. There may very well have been an element of quotas in it, but Philander had been preferred ahead of Abbott at the start of the tournament, and the general South African selection policy is for a first-choice player with a short-term injury to come back into the side when fit, so his return wasn't out of the ordinary. Philander is the better batsman, so team balance may have also played a role.

But even without Philander, that would still leave Steyn and Morkel (maybe Rabada as well) ahead of Abbott in the ODI pecking order.
KG was fast tracked because he was super talent. Steyn,ab,qdk,ect were also fast tracked...
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Andrew McGlashan‏ @andymcg_cricket 46m46 minutes ago
More
Stephen Cook's last three matches:
3 & 0 v SA, Dunedin
3 & 11 v SA, Wellington
2 & 0 v Notts, Chester-le-Street
#countycricketlive


Parnell followed up with 21 3-48

Elgar followed up with 27.
 
Last edited:

Top