Ashwin's streak and position

[OverratedSanity]

No one cared when he was dropped on away games before because he had about 100-150 wickets. And dropping him after his run now unless he is woefully out of form would look stupid now. So, now that he has secured his place in the XI, he should have more confidence and do well.

He got dropped at the worst possible time as well. In SA, he was dropped after one poor game and the next match at Durban had really good assistance for the spinners and Jadeja and Peterson picked up a hatful of wickets. In England, he didn't play in Southampton where Moeen and Jaddu picked up a handful each. And in Australia, he was dropped for ****ing Karn Sharma on a pitch which had loads of turn after day 2-3. I swear, he's had the worst luck.

 

[Xuhaib]

He is a world class bowler who will do very well in any era however currently just watching him bowl i believe he is not a genius aka warne-murali, this is the worst era for batting against spin which is allowing the likes of herath, ashwin, jadeja, yasir to pad up their stats.Heck modern day Tim May (lyon) has 200+wickets already usually dominates non sub cont sides

 

[cnerd123]

He is a world class bowler who will do very well in any era however currently just watching him bowl i believe he is not a genius aka warne-murali, this is the worst era for batting against spin which is allowing the likes of herath, ashwin, jadeja, yasir to pad up their stats.Heck modern day Tim May (lyon) has 200+wickets already usually dominates non sub cont sides

Name one right arm finger-spinner who is clearly better than Ashwin.

From what I've seen, he's right up there with Saqlain.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He is a world class bowler who will do very well in any era however currently just watching him bowl i believe he is not a genius aka warne-murali, this is the worst era for batting against spin which is allowing the likes of herath, ashwin, jadeja, yasir to pad up their stats.Heck modern day Tim May (lyon) has 200+wickets already usually dominates non sub cont sides

Lol I don't think anyone is suggesting he's Warne/Murali standard. But he's getting close to Kumble/Harbhajan level, if not already there, as far as Indian bowlers go IMO

 

[OverratedSanity]

He is a world class bowler who will do very well in any era however currently just watching him bowl i believe he is not a genius aka warne-murali, this is the worst era for batting against spin which is allowing the likes of herath, ashwin, jadeja, yasir to pad up their stats.Heck modern day Tim May (lyon) has 200+wickets already usually dominates non sub cont sides

Is it though? Even if we compare it to the 90s, I'd say the only India and Australia have clearly inferior lineups vs spin. SA , England, NZ, Pakistan are comprehensively better imo.

 

[Xuhaib]

Name one right arm finger-spinner who is clearly better than Ashwin.

From what I've seen, he's right up there with Saqlain.

He is better then saqi as a test bowler has better bowling acumen for long format bowling

 

[Xuhaib]

Lol I don't think anyone is suggesting he's Warne/Murali standard. But he's getting close to Kumble/Harbhajan level, if not already there, as far as Indian bowlers go IMO

His stats are already reaching warne-murali level

 

[Shri]

His stats are already reaching warne-murali level

Better than Warne but not as good as Murali imo.

 

[Furball]

His stats are already reaching warne-murali level

Warne averaged about 22 after 200 wickets.

Ashwin's already been poor on several tours outside Asia and even allowing for improvement his figures will take a battering when he next tours outside Asia.

Not that much of that is super relevant as Ashwin's biggest role is to win Test matches at home.

 

[Shri]

But seriously though, looking at him objectively without bias, I would legitimately call him a great bowler when he does something in conditions he finds different than what he is used to. Warne averaged 21 in England apart from being good at Australia, two completely different set of conditions(though the England players were **** players of spin bowling). Once he does that, I will get behind him even more.

 

[Xuhaib]

Is it though? Even if we compare it to the 90s, I'd say the only India and Australia have clearly inferior lineups vs spin. SA , England, NZ, Pakistan are comprehensively better imo.

00's was a very strong era india, aus,sl had atg batting sudws vs spin then there geniuses like lara,kp and inzi in every side who could suddenly turn it on and dominate against any spinner

 

[cnerd123]

But seriously though, looking at him objectively without bias, I would legitimately call him a great bowler when he does something in conditions he finds different than what he is used to. Warne average 21 in England apart from being good at Australia, two completely different set of conditions(though the England players were **** players of spin bowling). Once he does that, I will get behind him even more.

It's apples and oranges tho. Warne's a wrist spinner. Murali used his wrist. You can get so much more on the ball and extract so much more off the wicket if you do that. A googly is way easier to bowl than a carrom ball or a (legal) doosra.

Even Ashwin vs someone like Herath isn't a fair comparison, because Herath is a lefty with the benefits of bowling to all these right handed batsmen. We've seen how Ashwin eats left handers alive. Imagine if the bulk of the batsmen he bowled to were lefty? How many quality left handed batsmen has Herath bowled to?

If we're going to compare Ashwin, we need to compare him to right handed finger spinners. And I struggle to think of one who clearly better than Ashwin. I haven't seen Laker or Gibbs, Bhajji isn't better, Saqlain at his peak was as good as Ashwin is right now, Lyon isn't better, Swann was fantastic but again, Ashwin seems as good...he's really right up there with the best right handed finger spinners of all time.

The limitations of his bowling style are what they are. Shouldn't make him less of a great bowler IMO.

 

[Gnske]

Give the guy and his gigantic brain some credit tbh, when I've gotta watch ****s like Lyon, Santner and Patel, visiting spinners to India who so regularly disgrace the game of cricket, it makes me want to do a Chris Farley, and I don't mean choke on my own bile, I mean just take lots and lots of awful drugs.

 

[Shri]

It's apples and oranges tho. Warne's a wrist spinner. Murali used his wrist. You can get so much more on the ball and extract so much more off the wicket if you do that. A googly is way easier to bowl than a carrom ball or a (legal) doosra.

Even Ashwin vs someone like Herath isn't a fair comparison, because Herath is a lefty with the benefits of bowling to all these right handed batsmen. We've seen how Ashwin eats left handers alive. Imagine if the bulk of the batsmen he bowled to were lefty? How many quality left handed batsmen has Herath bowled to?

If we're going to compare Ashwin, we need to compare him to right handed finger spinners. And I struggle to think of one who clearly better than Ashwin. I haven't seen Laker or Gibbs, Bhajji isn't better, Saqlain at his peak was as good as Ashwin is right now, Lyon isn't better, Swann was fantastic but again, Ashwin seems as good...he's really right up there with the best right handed finger spinners of all time.

The limitations of his bowling style are what they are. Shouldn't make him less of a great bowler IMO.

I don't understand it when a smarter person makes great points in a discussion and I will not respond to it.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Good discussion. Warne is comfortably the best wrist-spinner, Murali the best elbow-spinner, but the best finger-spinner probably up for debate? My guess is as good as yours.

 

[Jono]

If his pitches are so bowler friendly in India why can't every other dumb **** spinner bowl well on them? Not buying the "doesnt grow up on them" argument because if its a turner you still shouldn't be ****. Sure Ashwin is more used to it that you won't outperform him but why are you ****? And I don't buy the "Indian batsmen are great against spin and Ashwin doesn't bowl to them" line, because India's batsmen aren't that good against spin anymore. Nowhere near what they were 5-8 years ago.

There is daylight between Ashwin and Herath and the rest, and Herath won't be around for much longer. Ashwin is a one of a kind spinner in today's age in that he's not a ****ing embarrassment like all the other ****s.

 

[vcs]

Swann vs. Ashwin is an interesting comparison.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Swann vs. Ashwin is an interesting comparison.

You'd have to give Swann credit for not playing as much of his cricket in helpful conditions

 

[weldone]

Yeah the pitches this series haven't been complete square turners by any means and he's still cleaning up and dominating. Massive gap in quality between him and the rest on show.

Exactly. Pitches in these 3 tests are very much comparable to what Harbhajan got in India throughout his career. The only difference is Harbhajan forgot how to spin the ball in the last 75% of his test matches.

 

[weldone]

Lol I don't think anyone is suggesting he's Warne/Murali standard. But he's getting close to Kumble/Harbhajan level, if not already there, as far as Indian bowlers go IMO

Kumble and Harbhajan are 2 very different distinct levels. Ashwin is at the Kumble level already (is very likely to decisively surpass Kumble in one or two years if this run continues), miles ahead of the Harbhajan level. Bringing Kumble and Harbhajan at the same level is like bringing Lillee and Thomson at the same level.