CW chooses the 2 best bowlers ever: 60 spinners + 100 pacemen in 2 separate contests

[AndrewB]

For the spinners:

India: I'd have thought Dilip Doshi should get in ahead of Hirwani; had a decent Test record despite not getting picked till he was into his 30s.
South Africa: Reggie Schwarz, Bert Vogler & Charlie Llewellyn from pre WW1 must be worth a shout - they were a big part in turning SA from being a pushover to a decent side.
Pakistan: Iqbal Qasim should surely be in ahead of, say, Mushtaq Mohammad (who was a batting all-rounder).
England: Surprised that Richard Illingworth is in the list; decent county bowler, wasn't disgraced in his handful of Tests, but no more than that. You could make a better case for any number of earlier bowlers (Robins, Tattersall, Goddard, ...), or indeed Panesar. Also not convinced Emburey is worth a place.

 

[Zinzan]

I haven't watched any pre-1950s cricket matches aside from small snippets.. have you watched any of those matches to really rate players "properly"?

It's just popular to **** on someone like Harmison and pick some dude you've heard is great but don't really know aside from some honorific article you've read. Most players got obituaries that waxed lyrical those days..

I've never understood this line of argument. Of course nobody here (with the exception of Burgey) would have watched pre-1950s cricket live, that doesn't mean we can't come to conclusions about them.

It's not just snippets of video we rely on, it's reading what cricket historians & their contemporaries said about them and also looking at their records comparative to others at the time they played.

 

[viriya]

It your thread but I'd leave them in. Especially if you are thinking of axing them bcos viriya doesn't rate anyone who didn't play 20 tests and hasn't heard of anyone who didn't play test simply bcos of circumstances beyond their control.

George Lohmann
Tom Richardson
Bert Ironmonger
Jack Saunders
Yasir Shah
Charlie Turner
Frank Tyson
Frederick Spofforth
Shane Bond
Bobby Peel

^ None of the above played 20 tests but I think deserve a spot.

Anyway, I admit I ignored FC records, if those are considered I have no problem with players like Cowie getting picked.

 

[AndrewB]

would anyone be opposed to Amar Singh and Mohammad Nissar being replaced?

Well, it'd make a mockery of my attack in the recent Asian draft, so yes...
I'm sure I saw Amar Singh in a list of the top 10 medium pace bowlers as picked by Alec Bedser,

 

[viriya]

Nooo, don't replace one underrated bowler with another.

Agreed - a lot of the same arguments apply to Hoggard.

 

[viriya]

I've never understood this line of argument. Of course nobody here (with the exception of Burgey) would have watched pre-1950s cricket live, that doesn't mean we can't come to conclusions about them.

It's not just snippets of video we rely on, it's reading what cricket historians & their contemporaries said about them and also looking at their records comparative to others at the time they played.

Yes but if you have one bowler that you know is good and another that is possibly good, who would you pick?

 

[morgieb]

For the spinners:

India: I'd have thought Dilip Doshi should get in ahead of Hirwani; had a decent Test record despite not getting picked till he was into his 30s.
South Africa: Reggie Schwarz, Bert Vogler & Charlie Llewellyn from pre WW1 must be worth a shout - they were a big part in turning SA from being a pushover to a decent side.
Pakistan: Iqbal Qasim should surely be in ahead of, say, Mushtaq Mohammad (who was a batting all-rounder).
England: Surprised that Richard Illingworth is in the list; decent county bowler, wasn't disgraced in his handful of Tests, but no more than that. You could make a better case for any number of earlier bowlers (Robins, Tattersall, Goddard, ...), or indeed Panesar. Also not convinced Emburey is worth a place.

Must be thinking of Ray Illingworth.

 

[mr_mister]

Right, I'll leave in Nissar and Singh. I really love the idea of spreading the love anyway and having all countries get a solid representation(relative to the number of test player they've produced before someone accuses me of having too many aussies and poms in here)



And Andrew, that's the kind of posts I wanna see!

Fair points regarding Illingworth, maybe Panesar/Tattersall deserves a place in there instead

Paul Adams can probably go too for Vogler, he seems to have quite a lot written about him

Qasim will replace Mustaq Mohammad too

 

[mr_mister]

and **** yes I was thinking of Ray Illingworth lol, I even looked both up but went with the younger dude nobody cared about by accident

 

[Zinzan]

Yes but if you have one bowler that you know is good and another that is possibly good, who would you pick?

But you're the one saying "possibly good". If we're talking about Jack Cowie, there's no 'possibly' about it in my mind.

 

[mr_mister]

made room for Caddick, Doshi, Vogler, Monty, changed Richard to Ray and made a few other changes, no more Nathan Lyon or Paul Adams or Mustaq Mohamamd

 

[mr_mister]

also added Chris Harris and Gavin Larsen for their miserly exploits at world cups

performed on the big stage

 

[mr_mister]

as well as McKenzie

 

[viriya]

Who's Vintcent van der Bijl? Dear God

Garth Le Roux didn't play any tests. No **** sherlock. Wonder why? Must be **** then eh?

I didn't say they were ****. I said they didn't play Tests.

 

[mr_mister]

okay we now have 108 quicks and 64 spinners


which will mean 54 and 32 in each contest for round 2, which we can work with

 

[viriya]

okay we now have 108 quicks and 64 spinners


which will mean 54 and 32 in each contest for round 2, which we can work with

Thanks for taking input.

Did you find space for Siddle/Southee/Harmison/Noble?

 

[mr_mister]

hmm.... no lol. I'll put them in now, may as well

 

[mr_mister]

now that the perfect 100 barrier has been broken

 

[mr_mister]

i rally ****ing hate Siddle tho tbh can you budge on him

 

[mr_mister]

okay no siddle, but I added Noble and reinstated Eddie Gilbert for personal reasons, made room for Harmison, John Lever, Peter Heine, Gerry Gomez, Craig Matthews


**** siddle lol



116 pacemen now sheesh NO MORE