fredfertang
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Neutral groundsmen (that's curators in Australasian) is the real answer, albeit an impractical and somewhat tongue in cheek one
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'No toss' option rule at Test level..
- Thread starter Zinzan
- Start date
OverratedSanity
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If there's a massive, unfair advantage to the team winning the toss, it's a problem with the pitch, not the toss itself. And most pitches these days across most countries don't make the toss that much of a factor anyway.
TheJediBrah
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Updated previous post with South Africa and NZ toss stats.
South Africa pretty standard as well, they actually do slightly better when they lose the toss at home.
The poor little battlers from NZ buck the trend by winning just a third of their home tosses. Add this to every one else winning more of theirs at home and it looks like NZ have by far gotten the worse of tosses in the last 5 years. Also a high percentage of draws in general in Test matches played in NZ, especially when NZ do finally win the toss . . . it tends to rain lol
Only really Tests in Sri Lanka (very significant), and possibly England (not really significant), show an advantage for the home side winning the toss, and hence where the rule change might help the touring side.
Important to keep in mind that this is just over the last 5 years, so still not a huge sample size.
South Africa pretty standard as well, they actually do slightly better when they lose the toss at home.
The poor little battlers from NZ buck the trend by winning just a third of their home tosses. Add this to every one else winning more of theirs at home and it looks like NZ have by far gotten the worse of tosses in the last 5 years. Also a high percentage of draws in general in Test matches played in NZ, especially when NZ do finally win the toss . . . it tends to rain lol
Only really Tests in Sri Lanka (very significant), and possibly England (not really significant), show an advantage for the home side winning the toss, and hence where the rule change might help the touring side.
Important to keep in mind that this is just over the last 5 years, so still not a huge sample size.
Zinzan
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Yeah NZ has had ****-ass luck with the toss the last few years, and not only statistically speaking, but when they've been most crucial. They've lost everyone I can remember when there's been a genuinely green wicket in recent times.
Not helped by KW choosing wrongly to bowl when he did win the toss vs. SA in that 2nd test.
Cricket: Why home is too much of an advantage in test game - Sport - NZ Herald News
It's incredible how many times recently the sub-continent team have enjoyed whitewashes of the tosses. 3-0 to India v us, 3-0 to Sri Lanka v Australia, 3-0 to Pakistan v England and 4-0 to India v SA all in the last year.
To me, that is muddying the waters of this issue. I haven't watched any of the other series' in depth but can only comment on ours that we turned up completely unprepared to face conditions that we absolutely knew were coming - for years. No game plans, poor technique. Seems to me that on that basis, national coaches with a vested interest want to change the way the toss is performed. A lot of those pitches in the series above weren't doctored, or in some cases not even particularly suited to the home team.
Seem to me like there's already an acceptance on tour that you have the worst of the conditions and you're behind the ledger before you arrive. The truly great sides always found a way. Surely to be considered the best in the world you have to win under all conditions - home/away, winning the toss and losing the toss, chasing and setting?
It's incredible how many times recently the sub-continent team have enjoyed whitewashes of the tosses. 3-0 to India v us, 3-0 to Sri Lanka v Australia, 3-0 to Pakistan v England and 4-0 to India v SA all in the last year.
To me, that is muddying the waters of this issue. I haven't watched any of the other series' in depth but can only comment on ours that we turned up completely unprepared to face conditions that we absolutely knew were coming - for years. No game plans, poor technique. Seems to me that on that basis, national coaches with a vested interest want to change the way the toss is performed. A lot of those pitches in the series above weren't doctored, or in some cases not even particularly suited to the home team.
Seem to me like there's already an acceptance on tour that you have the worst of the conditions and you're behind the ledger before you arrive. The truly great sides always found a way. Surely to be considered the best in the world you have to win under all conditions - home/away, winning the toss and losing the toss, chasing and setting?
Zinzan
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Yeah, I agree this freakish run of SC sides clean sweeping tosses in Asia recently has probably muddied the waters on the issue, making it seem more lopsided than it is.
I suppose the only argument is it does seem to be (generally speaking) a bigger blow to lose the toss in the SC than elsewhere, especially for non-SC sides.
That's not to suggest it's impossible to win when fielding first there, only to say it does make it exceedingly more difficult for non-SC sides when they do lose 3 out of 3 or 4 out of 4 in the series, when the series would have been tough enough if they even shared the toss outcome.
I suppose the only argument is it does seem to be (generally speaking) a bigger blow to lose the toss in the SC than elsewhere, especially for non-SC sides.
That's not to suggest it's impossible to win when fielding first there, only to say it does make it exceedingly more difficult for non-SC sides when they do lose 3 out of 3 or 4 out of 4 in the series, when the series would have been tough enough if they even shared the toss outcome.
Howe_zat
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I don't want conditions to change, as you say it's a part of cricket for the home side to be at an advantage, and it's only when tosses pile up that it starts to be an issue.
I'd be interested in a rule that if you lose the toss in one match, you choose to bat or bowl in the next one, before having another toss in the third. With weekly tests in most series now I doubt it'd change conditions much.
I'd be interested in a rule that if you lose the toss in one match, you choose to bat or bowl in the next one, before having another toss in the third. With weekly tests in most series now I doubt it'd change conditions much.
Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of there should be a more reasoned idea than the knee-jerk one of tossing the coin toss.
I mean, are pitches actually doctored all that often? If anything they're doctored to be flat as **** and ensure 5 days for the broadcaster. The sub-continent sometimes produces dry dusty decks because surprise, it's a dry part of the world. And raging green seamers aren't near the norm in the UK or Australasia, it's swing if anything. And hey, international coaches, the Future Tours programme ensures you know exactly what's coming years out. Want to win in India and Pakistan? Build your programme around it. Part of losing overseas is the comfort (or lack of) factor as well, not just the decks.
Rather than throw their hands up in defeat, I'd rather see countries get creative - have budding spinners spend significant time in the right parts of the world, have batsmen from the sub-continent go and learn to play the swinging Dukes ball, etc. If I think of my country, we've had guys like Vettori (early career) who can win Test matches in the 4th innings, batsmen who have gone to the sub-continent and been successful...just not with consistency. Start valuing overseas victories and actually working bloody hard to get em, not like our pissant selector who said he didn't want to make excuses, but in the next sentence used heat and pitches as factors for our series loss in India. ****, who saw that coming.