My All Time Test and ODI XI

[Coronis]

Wow, quickly realising how criminally underrated Hayden is around here. I don't care what era it is, averaging 50 as a opener is mighty impressive. Its also a myth that Sehwag's average is over 50 for whoever said that. Hayden is the best opening bat in the last 15 years.

Imagine someone averaging 60 as an opener

 

[Red]

Wow, quickly realising how criminally underrated Hayden is around here..

I've always thought Hayden struggled when the opposition pace attack were super good. As you'd expect anyone to, but I think he was a bit too much of a FTB. Never ground it out. I'd prefer Langer.

 

[honestbharani]

Thing with Haydos is that he was literally a flat track bully. As in, he bullied the medium pacers and spinners and even the fast bowlers on flat decks, walking down the pitch to hit them in front of the wicket etc. And when conditions suited the bowlers more, he struggled a lot. He did overcome them from time to time and do well on such tracks but when he did get scores in tougher tracks, he obviously couldn't do the stuff he would do on flat decks, so it kinda biases subjective analyses of him. He was a good opener for sure and better than Sehwag but as others have pointed out, when you got the likes of GAvaskar and Hutton and even Boycott to consider, why go for either of these two?

And yes, if you just want an aggressive opener to partner your other guy, Sehwag is a much better option than Hayden coz you know Sehwag will look to score off every ball no matter which track or conditions he is playing in. Hayden is only aggressive on roads. He is a bit of a neither-here-nor-there pick for an ATG side tbh.

 

[Zinzan]

And yes, if you just want an aggressive opener to partner your other guy, Sehwag is a much better option than Hayden coz you know Sehwag will look to score off every ball no matter which track or conditions he is playing in. Hayden is only aggressive on roads. He is a bit of a neither-here-nor-there pick for an ATG side tbh.

Both were flat-track bullies, but Hayden wasn't as hopeless as Sehwag in New Zealand, South Africa and English conditions, even if neither were good. Sehwag's no foot movement only worked on flat-decks, meaning he was always sitting duck in NZ conditions, in fact I notice he never even managed a 50 here in 9 innings. A few top batsmen have had ordinary records in NZ over the years tbf, but Sehwag's is horrendous.

 

[OverratedSanity]

They both usually failed on seamers, but handled turning tracks well. Harsh to say they only succeeded on flat tracks.

 

[cnerd123]

They're both FTBs. Sehwag is just a lot more explosive, a lot more fun, and has an entire religion based on him.

Therefore, Sehwag > Hayden

 

[Zinzan]

They both usually failed on seamers, but handled turning tracks well. Harsh to say they only succeeded on flat tracks.

Just look at their records, especially Sehwag's. He did relatively well in Australia, averaging 41 against generally very good bowlers, but let's be honest they do have predominately flat decks there where you can hit through the line even against good attacks.

The fact Sehwag averages 20 in NZ in 9 innings without a 50, 25 in SA in 15 innings and 27 in Eng in 10 innings says it all really... I mean those aren't tiny sample sizes...

 

[OverratedSanity]

I'm saying they succeeded on some real turners as well, hence that they didn't "only" succeed on flatter decks. Some of Sehwag's innings vs Murali and Hayden's in India were amazing displays vs quality spin.

 

[Zinzan]

Perhaps when I think of flat-decks, I generally think nothing in it for pace bowlers, only because even flat decks can end up taking turn on days 4-5. But Ok, they were both good against spin and terrible against pace in helpful pace bowling conditions... Hayden not quite so terrible as Sehwag though.

 

[honestbharani]

I pretty much said Hayden > Sehwag but I just meant if you want the better opener there are others miles better than Hayden and Sehwag was easily the more aggressive opener if that is the criteria u r picking by.

 

[listento_me]

I'll take Smitteh thanks

I was very close to picking Smith.

Smith is clearly behind the likes of Hobbs, Hutton & Gavaskar, but is definitely above Hayden & Sehwag for mine... and definitely my no.1 opener in the last 10-15 years.

I already have Hobbs and can't justify either Gavaskar or Hutton as partners as they were too similar in run accumulation. Great players all though.

They're both FTBs. Sehwag is just a lot more explosive, a lot more fun, and has an entire religion based on him.

Therefore, Sehwag > Hayden

Everyone celeb and their dog has a religious following in India lol

I pretty much said Hayden > Sehwag but I just meant if you want the better opener there are others miles better than Hayden and Sehwag was easily the more aggressive opener if that is the criteria u r picking by.

Sehwag wasn't "easily" more aggressive than Hayden and Hayden also had more to his game as I said before. If I'm picking an aggressive opener, which is what I was, then I can't justify Sehwag above Hayden.

 

[listento_me]

Anyway, I love an ATG thread.

Mine today:

Tests

01. Len Hutton
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman
04. Graeme Pollock
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Malcolm Marshall
10. Shane Warne
11. Glenn McGrath
12. SF Barnes


ODIs

01. Sachin Tendulkar
02. Mark Waugh
03. Viv Richards
04. Zaheer Abbas
05. AB DeVilliers
06. MS Dhoni
07. Andrew Symonds
08. Wasim Akram
09. Joel Garner
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath
12. Andrew Flintoff

That's an interesting test XI, no Akram but Barnes? No Khan but Hadlee? Pollock but no Tendulkar?

 

[Gob]

Anyway, I love an ATG thread.

Mine today:

Tests

01. Len Hutton
02. Victor Trumper
03. Don Bradman
04. Graeme Pollock
05. Viv Richards
06. Garry Sobers
07. Adam Gilchrist
08. Richard Hadlee
09. Malcolm Marshall
10. Shane Warne
11. Glenn McGrath
12. SF Barnes


ODIs

01. Sachin Tendulkar
02. Mark Waugh
03. Viv Richards
04. Zaheer Abbas
05. AB DeVilliers
06. MS Dhoni
07. Andrew Symonds
08. Wasim Akram
09. Joel Garner
10. Muttiah Muralitharan
11. Glenn McGrath
12. Andrew Flintoff

y u pick 12 players?

 

[honestbharani]

Supersub FTW

 

[Brian Lara]

Smith is clearly behind the likes of Hobbs, Hutton & Gavaskar, but is definitely above Hayden & Sehwag for mine... and definitely my no.1 opener in the last 10-15 years.

Well, I'd have to disagree. I think he may have been more consistent, but I'd take Sehwag or Hayden's more aggressive styles anyday.

I've always thought Hayden struggled when the opposition pace attack were super good. As you'd expect anyone to, but I think he was a bit too much of a FTB. Never ground it out. I'd prefer Langer.

Maybe, but its a very great player who dominates all types of bowling on all types of surfaces. I can't think of a modern day batsmen who can claim that. I think it almost counts against Hayden nowadays that he was so dominant on batsmen friendly pitches. I'd never pick Langer over Hayden simply because when Hayden gets his eye in, he is on for a monster score, which is a skill in itself.

Thing with Haydos is that he was literally a flat track bully. As in, he bullied the medium pacers and spinners and even the fast bowlers on flat decks, walking down the pitch to hit them in front of the wicket etc. And when conditions suited the bowlers more, he struggled a lot. He did overcome them from time to time and do well on such tracks but when he did get scores in tougher tracks, he obviously couldn't do the stuff he would do on flat decks, so it kinda biases subjective analyses of him. He was a good opener for sure and better than Sehwag but as others have pointed out, when you got the likes of GAvaskar and Hutton and even Boycott to consider, why go for either of these two?

And yes, if you just want an aggressive opener to partner your other guy, Sehwag is a much better option than Hayden coz you know Sehwag will look to score off every ball no matter which track or conditions he is playing in. Hayden is only aggressive on roads. He is a bit of a neither-here-nor-there pick for an ATG side tbh.

No one I don't think is suggesting that Hayden would be picked over any of those guys, although Boycott is an argument for sure. Hayden is completely disregarded as a FTB on this site and I think its very very harsh. He averaged over 40 against every nation expect NZ. Yes, he struggled more away from home, that's true. Let's compare to Sehwag, who averaged less than 30 away from home against 3 of the top 7 nations he had to face. Meanwhile Smith was more consistent, but less exciting and overall averaged less than both players.

You can throw a blanket over the 3 of them, but for me, Hayden was the best. He can be overrated, I've seen him in AGT teams which is wrong, but he's underrated around here I would say.

 

[listento_me]

Well, I'd have to disagree. I think he may have been more consistent, but I'd take Sehwag or Hayden's more aggressive styles anyday.



Maybe, but its a very great player who dominates all types of bowling on all types of surfaces. I can't think of a modern day batsmen who can claim that. I think it almost counts against Hayden nowadays that he was so dominant on batsmen friendly pitches. I'd never pick Langer over Hayden simply because when Hayden gets his eye in, he is on for a monster score, which is a skill in itself.



No one I don't think is suggesting that Hayden would be picked over any of those guys, although Boycott is an argument for sure. Hayden is completely disregarded as a FTB on this site and I think its very very harsh. He averaged over 40 against every nation expect NZ. Yes, he struggled more away from home, that's true. Let's compare to Sehwag, who averaged less than 30 away from home against 3 of the top 7 nations he had to face. Meanwhile Smith was more consistent, but less exciting and overall averaged less than both players.

You can throw a blanket over the 3 of them, but for me, Hayden was the best. He can be overrated, I've seen him in AGT teams which is wrong, but he's underrated around here I would say.

You make some very good points until the end. It's difficult to call Hayden overrated, he is more than deserving of any all time test XI. Of course certain other batsmen are in with a shout too but when you're in a shortlist of maybe 5 or 6 other openers, then surely that players has to be great.

Aren't there only 2 other openers in the history of the game with more runs and only one of them has an avg of 50? Factoring in Haydens style, destruction of oppositions and the fact that he played ion an era of great fast bowlers, that's says a lot.

 

[marc71178]

Playing in an era of great bowlers is a bit of a misleading comment when the majority of them were on his side.

In reality he's not in a top 10 of openers, let alone an all time team.

 

[Adders]

FWIW my opinion is that in general Hayden is underrated here on CW (probably because he is perceived as being such a ****)..........but listento_me, you are severely overrating him. No way does he make an ATG test side. Great player no doubt but a tier below the ATG's IMO.

 

[honestbharani]

Lol Smith is soo easily better than Hayden for me. And both ahead of Sehwag. And Gavaskar Boycott Greenidge all ahead of all 3.

 

[listento_me]

FWIW my opinion is that in general Hayden is underrated here on CW (probably because he is perceived as being such a ****)..........but listento_me, you are severely overrating him. No way does he make an ATG test side. Great player no doubt but a tier below the ATG's IMO.

Playing in an era of great bowlers is a bit of a misleading comment when the majority of them were on his side.

In reality he's not in a top 10 of openers, let alone an all time team.

In what way?

My argument is that he is the 3rd highest run getter as an opener and of the top 3, has the best avg and if I'm not mistaken, the best sr too. Then there's what's known as "the eye test". Just how good a player looks beyond stats by actually watching him. Hayden looked great more often than not.

Oh and it's completely unfair and arrogant to say Australia had all the best bowlers, you do realise he played against the likes of Younis, Murali, Akhtar, Saqlain, Donald, Ntini, Kallis and so on.