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***Official*** New Zealand in India 2016

Moss

Moss

International Vice-Captain
Flem274* said:
he was bad last season and taking him to a country full of spinners given his issues with them is a bit brutal
Click to expand...
I actually thought Brownlie was unlucky not be given the opening gig for at least a couple of tests from last season through to South Africa, but playing him in the SC is a big no-no (unless he's drastically improved against spin). I think the selection panel is just not interested, until he scores a mountain of FC runs.
 
Moss

Moss

International Vice-Captain
I certainly hope Patel comes into the reckoning for this tour. He was a mixed bag in 2010 and 2012 but the Indian batsmen in recent times aren't the absolute beasts again spin that they were then (they'd still dine out against Sodhi and Craig I imagine).

Latham's opening partner, I don't have strong feelings either way. Raval will have to front up against spin which is not really what he's been selected for, while Guptill might be good for some quick runs here and there. On the other hand, the idea of Guptill facing the new ball against Pakistan in November won't fill anyone with confidence, and if Raval is to open he might as well get a few tests before that.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
I heard Wagner could beat Hadlee's record of fastest to 100 wickets. needs 6 wickets next test to beat or 6 in the next 2 tests to equal.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Not understanding the doubts about Nicholls in the last few pages. Am I the only one whose view of him's changed following that 200+ ball stay at the crease in the last test? I mean is he a particularly poor player of spin or something?

I was all for Raval coming in & Guptill dropping to 5 prior to Centurion, but Nicholls at the very least has earned the first 2 tests vs. India after that effort, surely. Head and shoulders above our other batsmen bar KW (I'll give Taylor a pass after not legitimately being dismissed by bowlers).
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Moss said:
Latham's opening partner, I don't have strong feelings either way. Raval will have to front up against spin which is not really what he's been selected for, while Guptill might be good for some quick runs here and there. On the other hand, the idea of Guptill facing the new ball against Pakistan in November won't fill anyone with confidence, and if Raval is to open he might as well get a few tests before that.
Click to expand...

Unless all the domestic openers are averaging less than 20, it's unjustifiable for Guptill to still have a place in the side.

Raval has earned his shot and he deserves an extended go at it. If he fails there are other guys around too. Sure, none of them look all that great, but they deserve a shot.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Zinzan said:
Not understanding the doubts about Nicholls in the last few pages. Am I the only one whose view of him's changed following that 200+ ball stay at the crease in the last test? I mean is he a particularly poor player of spin or something?
Click to expand...
Nicholls also deserves his shot for a few more tests. One fifty does not a test batsman make, but he's earned himself a couple more tests.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
hendrix said:
Nicholls also deserves his shot for a few more tests.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, exactly what I said above..at least the first 2 tests.


hendrix said:
One fifty does not a test batsman make, but he's earned himself a couple more tests.
Click to expand...
Agree, although it was much more than him just getting a test 50 for me. Managing to survive >200 deliveries in those circumstances was the impressive thing.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
pfft nicholls batted a million times better than everyone else in that innings on a hard pitch against world class bowling.

if that was tom latham you'd all be calling it his arrival as a world class opener yadda yadda
 
Kippax

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Moss said:
I certainly hope Patel comes into the reckoning for this tour. He was a mixed bag in 2010 and 2012 but the Indian batsmen in recent times aren't the absolute beasts again spin that they were then (they'd still dine out against Sodhi and Craig I imagine).
Click to expand...
Hopes for this aren't helped at all by Warwickshire getting into another 50-over cup final. You might have to settle for getting a healthy bet on Jeets to be the man of the match on that dry, autumn Lord's surface. Saturday the 17th.

 
Last edited:
Moss

Moss

International Vice-Captain
This is the tour on which NZ will miss McCullum the batsman IMO. He had his methods of dealing with subcontinental conditions which, if not a resounding success, came off more often than those of most Aussie or English batsmen. There's also his experience plus the fact that he's played many times alongside Ashwin and Jadeja. While NZ's batting is a lot better than it was in 2012, Ashwin is also twice the bowler this time.

Had he been around, he would've also solved the opening problem by partnering Latham and allowing Raval to wait till the home season. Thinking back to UAE 2014, the McCullum-Latham partnership was a key reason for NZ staying afloat in that series.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
straw man said:
It's time to call stumps on Martin Guptill's career as a test match opening batsman | Stuff.co.nz

If Guptill plays one more test match he will equal the second most capped NZ opener at 38 tests - same as all three of Richardson, Edgar and Turner. Seems a little ridiculous when it's put like that.
Click to expand...
TBF it isn't exactly shocking to put Edgar and Guptill in the same sentence. We just have had very very few good long term opening prospects. Latham is the first in a long while.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Athlai said:
TBF it isn't exactly shocking to put Edgar and Guptill in the same sentence. We just have had very very few good long term opening prospects. Latham is the first in a long while.
Click to expand...
True, and I know the fact he's played so many test matches is primarily a consequence of the lack of other options.

However it's still weird that someone has opened in 37 tests without ever performing against reasonable opposition. Looking below, I think his 70, 0, 0, 70 in England last year is fairly close to his best series performance, and 35 is not exactly a great average. Every other time he's score runs it's been against a poor bowling attack (the Pakistan attack in 10/11 was ok but not the best).

Edit: Seems that Stuff article had taken out his tests where he didn't open - he has 44 in total. Record below is opener only.

Code: 
[TABLE="width: 1074"]
[TR]
[TD]Series[/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=matches;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]Mat[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=innings;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]Inns[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=notouts;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]NO[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=runs;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]Runs[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=high_score;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]HS[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_average;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]Ave[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=balls_faced;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]BF[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=batting_strike_rate;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]SR[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=hundreds;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]100[/URL][/TD]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/226492.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=fifty_plus;template=results;type=batting;view=series"]50[/URL][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/366620.html"]India in New Zealand Test Series, 2008/09[/URL][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]136[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD][B]27.2[/B][/TD]
[TD]243[/TD]
[TD]56.0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/403359.html"]New Zealand in Sri Lanka Test Series, 2009[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]105[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD][B]26.3[/B][/TD]
[TD]171[/TD]
[TD]61.4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/423771.html"]Pakistan in New Zealand Test Series, 2009/10[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD][B]18.8[/B][/TD]
[TD]202[/TD]
[TD]37.1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/464521.html"]New Zealand in India Test Series, 2010/11[/URL][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][B]6.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]42.9[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/473915.html"]Pakistan in New Zealand Test Series, 2010/11[/URL][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]102[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[TD][B]51.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]275[/TD]
[TD]37.1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/527011.html"]New Zealand in Zimbabwe Test Match, 2011/12[/URL][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]109[/TD]
[TD]109[/TD]
[TD][B]54.5[/B][/TD]
[TD]239[/TD]
[TD]45.6[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/518943.html"]Trans-Tasman Trophy (New Zealand in Australia), 2011/12[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD][B]11.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]108[/TD]
[TD]40.7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/520582.html"]Zimbabwe in New Zealand Test Match, 2011/12[/URL][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD]51[/TD]
[TD][B]51.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]109[/TD]
[TD]46.8[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/520587.html"]South Africa in New Zealand Test Series, 2011/12[/URL][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]122[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[TD][B]20.3[/B][/TD]
[TD]335[/TD]
[TD]36.4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/560920.html"]New Zealand in West Indies Test Series, 2012[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]277[/TD]
[TD]97[/TD]
[TD][B]69.3[/B][/TD]
[TD]632[/TD]
[TD]43.8[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/565799.html"]New Zealand in India Test Series, 2012[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD][B]19.5[/B][/TD]
[TD]158[/TD]
[TD]49.4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/582183.html"]New Zealand in Sri Lanka Test Series, 2012/13[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][B]9.8[/B][/TD]
[TD]95[/TD]
[TD]41.1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/567344.html"]New Zealand in South Africa Test Series, 2012/13[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD][B]12.5[/B][/TD]
[TD]145[/TD]
[TD]34.5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/743917.html"]New Zealand in England Test Series, 2015[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]140[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD][B]35.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]197[/TD]
[TD]71.1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/892501.html"]Trans-Tasman Trophy [New Zealand in Australia], 2015/16[/URL][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD][B]13.7[/B][/TD]
[TD]287[/TD]
[TD]28.6[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/914181.html"]Sri Lanka in New Zealand Test Series, 2015/16[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]253[/TD]
[TD]156[/TD]
[TD][B]63.3[/B][/TD]
[TD]409[/TD]
[TD]61.9[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/914251.html"]Trans-Tasman Trophy [Australia in New Zealand], 2015/16[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD][B]20.3[/B][/TD]
[TD]107[/TD]
[TD]75.7[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/1024047.html"]New Zealand in Zimbabwe Test Series, 2016[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]138[/TD]
[TD]87[/TD]
[TD][B]46.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]251[/TD]
[TD]55.0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][URL="http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/936107.html"]New Zealand in South Africa Test Series, 2016[/URL][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][B]5.0[/B][/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]40.5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
I really feel for Guptill that it's got to this point, to be honest. He's not the worst opener we've ever had, not by a long shot. But he definitely has been given the longest rope, and it's been because of some very poor selection policies and pie-in-the-sky optimism. It's not his fault they keep selecting him.

He should not be going to India.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Athlai said:
TBF it isn't exactly shocking to put Edgar and Guptill in the same sentence..
Click to expand...
Ahh Staap....Mate, very very different eras. Edgar played 25 of his 39 test vs. Eng and Aust between 1978-1986, and just 3 innings vs. the then minnows Sri Lanka.

He scored 161 against an attack of Lillee, Thomson, Alderman in 1982 which lead us to a 5 wicket victory and averaged 60, including 127 vs. that great Windies side that toured here in 1980 we managed to draw the series with.

Classic example of when overall statistics do lie. Edgar >>>>>>> Guptill the test opener. It's not even a contest.
 
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