Yasir, Ashwin and Herath

[vcs]

Yasir has played significantly fewer games and taken significantly fewer wickets for the comparison to make a huge amount of sense at this point. Not saying he isn't as good, just that it's like comparing Philander to Steyn.

 

[viriya]

Herath replaced Ashwin at the top after the latest tests:
cricrate | Current Ratings - Test Bowling

Both of them at ATG level current ratings.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Much deserved for his royal roundness.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Herath and Yasir have performed in South Africa, Australia and England, to varying degrees. True, maybe not quite as consistent in all conditions as Swann.

But they're both significantly better than Swann ever was, overall. Not saying Swann wasn't good, I just think there's a bit of rose tint looking back.

Swann won MOTS against South Africa in South Africa, IIRC, and headed up a winning overseas tour in India - even if Panesar's figures wound up better. I don't think there's really much difference between Herath and Swann - if pushed I'd take Herath.

 

[vcs]

Way too early to say Yasir > Swann. I wouldn't even assert Ashwin > Swann yet, and this is with Ashwin having a clear statistical advantage and close to the same number of wickets.

 

[harsh.ag]

Swann > Ashwin and maybe even Herath as of now.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I think it comes down to what we value more

Total dominance in 1 set of conditions + poor over different set of conditions vs Consistent across a wide range of conditions.

In terms of overall career, Swann wins that so far.

If I have to make a pick about who to pick for the next test match in the SC, it will be Ashwin.

If I have to make a pick about who to pick for the next test match outside of the SC, it will be Swann.

So that's 2 ticks to Swann, 1 to Ashwin.

I think a Saqlain vs Ashwin conversation would be very similar too.

 

[flibbertyjibber]

Difficult one as Swann was in a better overall team so his away performances help him in series England won away. Herath has had to bowl almost as well just to make Sri Lanka competitive on tours and Ashwin has done nothing away of note at all against a decent side. Yasir bowled very well in the tests Pakistan won in England earlier this year but was toilet in the ones they lost. All good bowlers in their own right but it a shame that Panesar has had the problems he has as he could still be playing now and would have solved the England spin problem if he was anywhere near the bowler he was when he was younger.

 

[Howe_zat]

Swann won MOTS against South Africa in South Africa, IIRC, and headed up a winning overseas tour in India - even if Panesar's figures wound up better. I don't think there's really much difference between Herath and Swann - if pushed I'd take Herath.

Also took a 10wm in Sri Lanka in 2012.

He won one match in Australia in 2010 though it was tempered with a few bad ones.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Also took a 10wm in Sri Lanka in 2012.

He won one match in Australia in 2010 though it was tempered with a few bad ones.

Was just making a point, not providing a blow by blow account of his career.

 

[Howe_zat]

Every post should be an account of his career ftr

 

[viriya]

I think swann is way overrated in CW because people here have a hard-on for away performances being similar to home. No value is given for dominating one aspect.

In a hypothetical setup where 100 points is max, a player who performs at a 60 both home and away is fawned over another guy who does 90 at home and 45 away.

 

[Howe_zat]

I think swann is way overrated in CW because people here have a hard-on for away performances being similar to home. No value is given for dominating one aspect.

In a hypothetical setup where 100 points is max, a player who performs at a 60 both home and away is fawned over another guy who does 90 at home and 45 away.

that's because the latter is more common and therefore more replaceable.

If you perform at home it's more likely that performance could have been made up for by your team mates or by someone else. Away, less so.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Away wins and performances are generally more precious and always will be.

 

[vcs]

I wouldn't say it's completely cut and dried.. it depends upon the extent of the bullying you do at home and whether you can dominate top opponents in favourable conditions like say, Sehwag.. I'd take him over Inzy and arguably Younis Khan also, despite the latter's more balanced record.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Well I wouldn't but Sehwag is different. It's not just that he bullies teams at home, it's how he bullies them that's so unique. Don't think that applies to SC-bullies ( and I don't use that term in a disparaging term here) like Herath and Ashwin.

 

[Daemon]

Yeah Ashwin's been phenomenal at home but I don't know whether replacing him with Swann would make that much difference in India's performances at home, especially series wins.

 

[honestbharani]

I think it will.. His stats are bloody ridiculous, just like Sehwag. I made a lot of these points in an argument with Burgey. Its one thing to dominate at home but players like Sehwag, Yousuf, Ashwin and maybe Mahela take it to a different level. When its done with any consistency, even if it is at home, you have to broaden the parameters of your judgement to understand how valuable they can be to any side. For instance, I am sure that Swann won't have won us the series in SL like Ashwin did.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think it will.. His stats are bloody ridiculous, just like Sehwag. I made a lot of these points in an argument with Burgey. Its one thing to dominate at home but players like Sehwag, Yousuf, Ashwin and maybe Mahela take it to a different level. When its done with any consistency, even if it is at home, you have to broaden the parameters of your judgement to understand how valuable they can be to any side. For instance, I am sure that Swann won't have won us the series in SL like Ashwin did.

Again, Sehwag is different because of how he dominates. There are lots of spinners with comparable home records as Ashwin. Sehwag is utterly unique in terms of his SR and ability to get humongous scores.

And Swann did win England a series in SL, you know.

Edit: I was wrong, thought they won 2012, but it was 1-1

 

[91Jmay]

Swann's record in Sri Lanka is 16 wickets in 2 games at 22, and those pitches were flat.