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***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2016/17

Dan

Hall of Fame Member
1. Latham
2. Guptill
3. Williamson
4. Taylor
5. Bruce
6. Blundell
7. de Grandhomme
8. Santner
9. Sodhi
10. Milne
11. Boult

12. Southee
13. Kuggs
14. Phillips/Nicholls
15. Munro

Urgh
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I know I'm pretty much the equivalent of a 'single issue' politician on this stuff, warm up games .......

What was the prep for this NZA tour?

They've gone straight into an A test? Couldn't they have played a 3 day warm up game v the local state association first?

An A test in the sub-continent is such a rare and precious thing for our guys, a once every 4 years kind of opportunity. Do we want to waste this opportunity (and investment) by being bundled out in 2 and a half days? Denying Ish a second bowl etc. leaving Seiffert strand on 30 rather than stranded on 50 ....

Im not expecting them to win, I'm not even expecting them to be very good. However if getting some pre-test match practice v spin from both ends, dry pitch, heat etc meant we could have got 220 each innings rather than 140 each? - and thus stretched the game by a day and given all 11 players a decent crack at their core roles over the almost full 4 days.

They've already committed the time and money on the A tour, why not actually also commit to doing it well. We'll only get much value out of this tour by the second half the the second and final test. The first 75% of the series will be seeing how players cope with chasing after our own un-prepared asses, although admittedly this would be a good realistic dress rehearsal & audition for being on an actual blackcaps tour.

Our last A tour like this 4 years ago, had no prep games either, but it had 2 back to back series v Ind then SL, so we started getting value by the SL leg.

Yes, I do feel a bit churlish and ungrateful complaining about this tour, after spending the last 2 years complains about the lack of A tours. But, just do it properly, please. Give these guys opportunities to try and succeed, it's an important investment. Then I won't have much to complain about.
 
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Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
A 'sweeping lesson' to remember for NZ 'A' batsman Will Young | Cricket News - Times of India

CHENNAI: Conquering the spin challenge in India is probably the most critical ingredient to success for every foreign batsman. Will Young, a 24-year-old batsman from Central Districts, New Zealand, knows what 'preparation' is all about.

Young is part of the New Zealand A side which is set to play two unofficial Tests and five ODIs against India in Vizag starting September 23.

Even before the NZ 'A' squad for the India trip was announced officially, Young was setting himself up for the tour. While a few first-class cricketers from Canterbury (NZ) were training in Chennai at Cricket Drome as part of their training programme last month, Central Districts Club cricketer Young, too, had joined them as a special participant.

With former India cricketer Amol Muzumdar and former New Zealand cricketer Gary Stead taking charge, Young's 'sweeping lessons' got underway in Chennai. It was all about game scenarios for the young Kiwis. "One scenario was to put them under scoring pressure and see how they react to it," Muzumdar had said.

But Young had to face a different challenge. The right-handed batsman was challenged in a different manner so that he "trusts" his technique come the match situation. On a prepared turner, Young kept sweeping offies, leggies and left-arm spinners in front and behind square.
And then Stead said: "Remove your left pad and start sweeping."

"We were trying to challenge Will to trust his technique and it was about developing total trust on his game. If he didn't commit fully to the shot, he is going to get hit on the pads. Now without the (front) pad on, he has to be at the top of his technique to get the shot right. That was the thing we worked on there. It's a mental thing and trusting his game against spin," Stead told TOI on Wednesday.

Young, without his front pad on, went down on his knees, head on top of the ball and swept the ball right under his nose. The drill continued for a while and during the sessions that followed.

"I might well be touring here with the A side. Thus I thought of coming here with the Canterbury team and I got the nod from NZ cricket. I have heard a lot about the art of playing spinners in India. Sweep is a key shot to have in your game and I have been working hard on it. My aim is to ensure that you not only defend solidly but you should be in a position to rotate strike against spinners on wickets that assist them. I'm looking forward to the challenge of playing here," he had told TOI during his visit to Chennai last month.

Muzumdar, who had worked with the young boys from New Zealand, had mentioned that his primary agenda was to give assurance to the youngsters that most things that have been said about the 'difficult Indian conditions' were a "myth."

"When I was a player, I didn't think much about what they were thinking. But now as coach I see things from a different perspective. I think the turning ball, difficult conditions and stuff...it's a lot of myth. I believe if you are confident about your game, you can handle things in India as a foreigner. It's about being mentally prepared," he had said.

Young, who averages 41.81 with four hundreds and 22 fifties in 49 first-class matches, will hope his sweeping lessons come in handy as and when he faces the Indian spinners.
 

Kippax

Cricketer Of The Year
Doing these drills at 24 is a bit too mid-career to matter, it seems. I look forward to NZC putting more money into adolescents.
 

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
I know I'm pretty much the equivalent of a 'single issue' politician on this stuff, warm up games .......

What was the prep for this NZA tour?

They've gone straight into an A test? Couldn't they have played a 3 day warm up game v the local state association first?

An A test in the sub-continent is such a rare and precious thing for our guys, a once every 4 years kind of opportunity. Do we want to waste this opportunity (and investment) by being bundled out in 2 and a half days? Denying Ish a second bowl etc. leaving Seiffert strand on 30 rather than stranded on 50 ....

Im not expecting them to win, I'm not even expecting them to be very good. However if getting some pre-test match practice v spin from both ends, dry pitch, heat etc meant we could have got 220 each innings rather than 140 each? - and thus stretched the game by a day and given all 11 players a decent crack at their core roles over the almost full 4 days.

They've already committed the time and money on the A tour, why not actually also commit to doing it well. We'll only get much value out of this tour by the second half the the second and final test. The first 75% of the series will be seeing how players cope with chasing after our own un-prepared asses, although admittedly this would be a good realistic dress rehearsal & audition for being on an actual blackcaps tour.

Our last A tour like this 4 years ago, had no prep games either, but it had 2 back to back series v Ind then SL, so we started getting value by the SL leg.

Yes, I do feel a bit churlish and ungrateful complaining about this tour, after spending the last 2 years complains about the lack of A tours. But, just do it properly, please. Give these guys opportunities to try and succeed, it's an important investment. Then I won't have much to complain about.
Think tbh we should just view this first 'test' as the warmup - it's A cricket so the result doesn't matter enormously, the important thing is to see improvement from one match to the next.

They might have benefited from playing ODIs first (presumably on easier wickets) to ease into things, but that's minor - really they just need to take each match one at a time and try to learn as much as possible from each match.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Think tbh we should just view this first 'test' as the warmup - it's A cricket so the result doesn't matter enormously, the important thing is to see improvement from one match to the next.

They might have benefited from playing ODIs first (presumably on easier wickets) to ease into things, but that's minor - really they just need to take each match one at a time and try to learn as much as possible from each match.
Yes, I see it as a warm up match. And I agree the result doesn't matter.

As with an unprepared blackcaps tour, I usually ignore the first test.

Problem is this is just a 2 'test' series, and the first away A 'test' in 4 years.

We've now already spent 18% of the maximum 8 days of the A test 'series' not actually playing because were too ****. I'd suggest the investment in some preparation, to try and be a little less ****, so that we can utilise 100% of all 8 days would have been well spent.

There is no next time for most of these guys. They'll be 28, the next time we have an away A test. The guys on that next tour probably aren't even playing FC cricket yet, won't have played in Asia and will most likely also spend the first 6 days of a test series chasing after their own unprepared asses.
 
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Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Because there's really 2 facets to this A tour.

1. Playing in Asian conditions.
2. Playing v a strong test nation's A team in away conditions.

Because of our lack of investments in youth tours, I feel 3 quarters of the team a probably not actually equipped for the first facet yet.

Probably a single warm up game isn't going to overcome this, but every little helps.
 
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nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Because there's really 2 facets to this A tour.

1. Playing in Asian conditions.
2. Playing v a strong test nation's A team in away conditions.

Because of our lack of investments in youth tours, I feel 3 quarters of the team a probably not actually equipped for the first facet yet.

Probably a single warm up game isn't going to overcome this, but every little helps.
A tours are all about learning. More they fail better they get. Our boys are going straight from winter to testing conditions in India. Just imagine, the well toured, heavily experienced teams struggle to face off India in India so it's only natural our boys are struggling too. They'll come good no worries. There are some very talented players in the mix, they are bound to do well. It's not easy touring India trust me. Everything is different from here and it takes time adjusting to weather, food, travel, sights etc. Most of the guys trained over at Lincoln for few days and also used Merlin the spin bowling robot. It's true some blokes only really had couple of days or three of training but at this time of the year there's no pitch in NZ that can take turn. Pre-tour matches for As is not an option. This is not a full international tour and every game is official. To be fair to NZ Cricket, this is certainly not about winning but seeing players how they go about in testing conditions.

Only gripe I have and disappointing for NZ A is that India is not fielding a good side. If they were serious they could have fielded an amazing team which would have helped our guys to get even better.

The India A players have been playing non-stop cricket in mostly Indian conditions. NZ A team will not worry them. They have good amount of cricket under their belt. Contrast that with NZ A, most haven't had a chance to play much cricket in sub-continent conditions. Even if they played few games at Lincoln (which they did) that'll not help them. The conditions here are no match to Indian conditions. The only possible place they could have trained at is at Dubai but NZ Cricket doesn't have the funding for the international team let alone A side.

I hear Tom Blundell played some amount of cricket against first class sides for Hutt Hawks over the winter so I'd expect him to come good in the next few games.

I reckon you guys are very harsh on our players. You have to keep things in perspective. If India A visiting early summer they would have struggled here too.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
I'm not being hard on the players.

I'm recognising how unprepared they must be, it being September, and how rare an opportunity it is for any NZ A level player - that I'm therefore disappointed that they're not being given a better opportunity to learn and succeed. Seeing as that's the whole point.

This will be over before they've got their bearings.

But as I conceded further up, that's actually a very realist blackcaps scenario.

But the gist of my point - the economics: It's expensive flying 15 players plus staff to India, etc etc , not sure who pays accomodation costs though. Therefore having made that investment, it seems false economy to go straight into tests, a FC game v local state side if available , or a non-FC game v a club side. Adding 4 days to the start of the tour at our own cost, arranging a FC game against one of the 27 state sides (preferably the local one where first test is played)

If it was a 3 match test series, I wouldn't be bothered as there's still time to learn at he back end of the series. Or if we were like England Lions and doing this all the time I wouldn't be worried, as someone will get more chances over several years.


But because we can't bat v spin, Sodhi and Astle don't get to bowl on a day 3/4 Indian wicket v sub continent batsmen. We've come all this way, paid all this money (someone has) to give it a half-arsed crack.


Edit.
Btw, the balance; 2 tests and 5 List A's. NZ cricket don't need to be making a finically investment in giving our A level players Indian List A experience. ODI caps are handed out like confetti, foreign T20 leagues etc. we have a large pool of players with white ball experience in Asian conditions. The gaping hole we need plugging is red ball cricket in Asian conditions.
 
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Immenso

International Vice-Captain
But I feel dirty complaining about the A Tour schedule.

I'm really delighted there is actually an A Tour at all.

I concede there's 2 parties that need to agree to any schedule.

I concede it's been organised relatively quickly (not ideal though).

I concede NZC don't have an unlimited supply of cash.
 

Immenso

International Vice-Captain
Has the ICC Big 3 revenue model been changed? Is NZC now getting a better deal, hence this tour?

I had read about the vote to change this, months ago, but then BCCI weren't accepting it? Then I switched off for the winter.

I've just tried to googled it, it seems nz are now getting a bigger slice, unless this article is now out of date;
New ICC finance model breaks up Big Three - ESPNcricinfo

An extra $50m over 8 years.
New Zealand to benefit from overhaul of world cricket financial model | Stuff.co.nz
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Provably the injured Kyle Jamieson is the best uncapped player in nz, and not on the A tour.
Desperately need some batsman or guys he can contribute top 6/7 and heard good things plus watched his innings at New Plymouth.

You guys are probably sorted with quicks. There is enough to work with for Henry, Ferguson, Milne, Kuggeleijn.
 

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