Weakest South African side (all formats) since their readmission in 1991?

[Zinzan]

If the ICC rankings are anything to go by, and I'm not necessarily suggesting they always are, it would suggest this is about the weakest South African cricket has been since their readmission in 1991.

Obviously T20Is have only been around for the last decade, but even if you apply some a weightings system across the 3 formats with a premium on Tests, followed by ODIs, they're a long way from their almost arbitrary top 3 in the last 20 years (certainly in tests & ODIs)

A far cry from just 18 months ago when they were no 1 test side & 1 or 2 in ODIs- IIRC.

Is this just a result of a fickle rankings system which has seen SA plummet on the back of a couple of big test series losses to India and England or is there something more to it i.e. Politics & controversy around quotas? Or is it just a slight lull that all sides go through?

I was especially surprised as a NZ supporter to see us ahead of them in tests (5th place), since we've yet to beat SA in a test series either home or away and even more so to see NZ are currently ranked above SA across all 3 formats,

So is this the weakest SA cricket has been internationally across all formats since their readmission or is it more a case of a fickle system?

Here's where they currently sit across the 3 formats... ( Tests - 6th, ODIs - 4th & T20Is - 4th)


ICC Test Championship

13 June 2016
Team Matches Points Rating
Australia 32 3765 118
India 20 2238 112
Pakistan 20 2227 111
England 36 3872 108
New Zealand 25 2449 98
South Africa 22 2015 92
Sri Lanka 28 2383 85
West Indies 21 1374 65
Bangladesh 12 687 57
Zimbabwe has 48 points but has not played the required eight Test matches over the new rating period to be included on the main table.

ICC ODI Championship

02 July 2016
Team Matches Points Rating
Australia 40 4916 123
New Zealand 41 4631 113
India 48 5278 110
South Africa 46 5047 110
England 46 4891 106
Sri Lanka 51 5192 102
Bangladesh 24 2347 98
West Indies 30 2808 94
Pakistan 42 3644 87
Afghanistan 19 961 51
Zimbabwe 46 2112 46
Ireland 13 531 41


ICC Twenty20 Championship

05 July 2016
Team Match
New Zealand 20 2635 132
India 25 3212 128
West Indies 18 2192 122
South Africa 23 2734 119
England 21 2427 116
Australia 19 2099 110
Pakistan 28 2924 104
Sri Lanka 26 2508 96
Afghanistan 22 1725 78
Bangladesh 23 1708 74
Netherlands 10 667 67
Zimbabwe 22 1358 62
Scotland 11 622 57
UAE 14 757 54
Ireland 11 526 48
Oman 12 442 37
Hong Kong 15 440 29

 

[OverratedSanity]

The rankings are simply weird at the moment. Too volatile to take seriously. I'd say the current SA is a good distance better than the one in the 2002-06 period between the Donald Era and the Steyn Era. Ntini and a declining Pollock carried the attack but the team as a whole wasn't amazing.

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah I was thinking of the 2004 side that managed a 1-1 drawn series in NZ, which is the best NZ have done versus SA in a test series, discounting a drawn series in republic in the 1960s.

Be interested in hearing from some of the few S Africans we have on this forum.

 

[vcs]

The rankings are simply weird at the moment. Too volatile to take seriously. I'd say the current SA is a good distance better than the one in the 2002-06 period between the Donald Era and the Steyn Era. Ntini and a declining Pollock carried the attack but the team as a whole wasn't amazing.

Yeah, I'd agree, they were pretty dire then. 2006 series was a big opportunity missed after winning the first Test. India were even more dire unfortunately.

This current outfit is pretty talented, but completely lacking in balance and batting depth, strangely for a SA side. You get all-or-nothing performances from them.

 

[TheJediBrah]

The rankings are simply weird at the moment. Too volatile to take seriously. I'd say the current SA is a good distance better than the one in the 2002-06 period between the Donald Era and the Steyn Era. Ntini and a declining Pollock carried the attack but the team as a whole wasn't amazing.

I strongly disagree with this

 

[Adders]

The rankings are simply weird at the moment. Too volatile to take seriously.

Agree with this. In tests there really isn't anything between the top 6 teams atm and a brief run of wins or losses can see any team jump or drop 4 spots in no time. I do think SA are a fair bit off where they were 18 months ago but they could easily be back to top 3 in a short space of time.

I'll concede Australia as clear No1's in ODI's right now but that's probably the only thing that's reasonably clear cut in any of the formats.

 

[vcs]

England are clearly ahead of everyone in Tests IMO.

 

[Adders]

Nah, they're in the mix but I can't see them as "clearly" ahead.

 

[TheJediBrah]

England are clearly ahead of everyone in Tests IMO.

not sure if srs, but no

I think they're almost as good as anyone, there or thereabouts but not the no. 1 side, let alone "clearly".

 

[Adders]

not sure if srs, but no

I think they're almost as good as anyone, there or thereabouts but not the no. 1 side, let alone "clearly".

So who do you say is better??

 

[Black_Warrior]

Well the rankings for the last few years now have been very interesting to say the least in this era of home domination. New Zealand, Pakistan and India are all ranked ahead of South Africa but do we realistically expect any of them to beat South Africa in South Africa now?
This is not to say rankings mean ****...it's just going to change very frequently, plus South Africa I felt were a bit hard done by the Bangladesh series 0-0 last year which cost them valuable points.

That being said, assessing the SA side outside of rankings, I still believe it's a pretty good test side. Not quite best, a tad below Australia and England at the moment..but that's about it. India, Pakistan and South Africa are pretty equal to me at this moment, and I expect each side to beat the other at home, and lose away.
I know Steyn has been quiet for a while thanks to injuries and getting tonked in LO cricket has done his reputation some damage. But the last time he played a test match, he was still as good as we expect him to be. So I wouldn't take this very seriously and expect him to pick truckloads of wickets once fit.
So this SA test side is a fair distance ahead of the SA test side post Cronje when Pollock took over around 2001. That was the weakest I had seen, losing at home to England, losing in Pakistan, India and in Sri Lanka quite heavily. 02-07 (when they beat Pakistan in Pakistan post WC 2007 and Smith was becoming the leader that would give him success along with the emergence of Steyn) was the weakest for me.

The SA LO side on the other hand is a different story. I have long maintained that the SA ODI is actually not very good. This is not necessarily reflected in individual bilateral series where if you win the toss in the decider and bat first and AB and De Kock have a good day, you win the series. Their record when batting second is still woeful. But overall, if you place them in the context of the top LO sides at the moment - namely India, Australia New Zealand and WI (T20), you can see the difference. The SA bowling is a few notches behind and on days when Tahir doesn't bowl well, it's as bad as some of the worst sides. There's a reason they failed to defend 200+ scores so many times in T20 cricket. As for batting, yes on paper they have one of the strongest sides but compare the consistency of the top order with that of Aus or India and they are way behind.
I mean this has to be one of the most under performing top orders in LO in a long long time.

 

[vcs]

The quality of England's cricket right now, is very high. I am afraid they are on the stepping stone to becoming a dominant side. Hope I'm wrong. Not just going by results here, but the way they have played recently.

 

[anil1405]

What makes this current South African side come close to being the weakest since readmission is that it appears there are only 7-8 players who deserve to play for the national team. Rest all are merely being selected to make up numbers.

There are excellent players like AB, Steyn and Amla and good players like deKock, Rabada, Faf, JP (a bit hesitant to add him in this category)...and the rest are either not too consistent or simply not good enough.

 

[StephenZA]

SA lost Kallis, which would hurt any team. But the biggest loss was Smith. This caused us to have problems at the top and more importantly effected the captaincy, which then got turned over to Amla which appeared to effect his form (never seen Amla go through such a lean spell, not including the very beginning of his career). And then the loss of 2 of our first choice bowlers to injury did not help at all. And not having a quality allrounder atm hurts. Duminy needs to be replaced (we have some good young batsmen in the wings) but without a decent allrounder he keeps getting picked.

Good thing was Rabada, came out of it and I hope Bavuma continues to do well. And may Cook get a long run, real quality.

Our LO is trash at the moment and thats because we don't have the right balance and the coaching staff can`t make up their mind what to do.

And then their is always the politics.....

Edit: and obviously QDK should cement his place now. After Vilas bungled it unfortunately.

 

[Zinzan]

The quality of England's cricket right now, is very high. I am afraid they are on the stepping stone to becoming a dominant side. Hope I'm wrong. Not just going by results here, but the way they have played recently.

Agree England have some nice momentum, but still think Australia is currently the better test side, even if Eng did win their home Ashes series last year and still think they're some way behind Australia as an ODI side.

 

[StephenZA]

What makes this current South African side come close to being the weakest since readmission is that it appears there are only 7-8 players who deserve to play for the national team. Rest all are merely being selected to make up numbers.

There are excellent players like AB, Steyn and Amla and good players like deKock, Rabada, Faf, JP (a bit hesitant to add him in this category)...and the rest are either not too consistent or simply not good enough.

Elgar is excellent and has shown his worth. Bavuma is still untested, but has potential, and having van Zyl at the top hurt a good batsmen. Cook should have been opening earlier. Elgar, Cook, Amla, AB, Faf, Bavuma, QDK, Philander, Rabada, Steyn, Piedt.... thats a quality team. But not the same as having Smith and Kallis in it, but life happens.

 

[anil1405]

Elgar is excellent and has shown his worth. Bavuma is still untested, but has potential, and having van Zyl at the top hurt a good batsmen. Cook should have been opening earlier. Elgar, Cook, Amla, AB, Faf, Bavuma, QDK, Philander, Rabada, Steyn, Piedt.... thats a quality team. But not the same as having Smith and Kallis in it, but life happens.

The team looks good on paper and i'd be glad to see this team play for close to a decade. But the problem is AB, Amla and Steyn might last for couple of years. AB is already feeling the effects of heavy workload and Amla might last for more than two years but his form is a worry.

Elgar, Cook and Bavuma are pretty good prospects but Cook is already 33 so would be interesting to see how long he would carry on at international level.

 

[TheJediBrah]

So who do you say is better??

Australia, India, but obviously very hard to definitively say. Especially with the home dominance almost every side is showing.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Australia, India, but obviously very hard to definitively say. Especially with the home dominance almost every side is showing.

No way, we aren't even close to England at the moment..

 

[91Jmay]

Agree with general consensus, there is no real top test side. Aus clearly a dominant ODI side, after that would argue that again the 2nd place team is pretty close between many. Would probably plump for NZ though.

T20, I feel like England are the best (I know the Windies won the WT20 and it is hard to argue against them) now we have added Mills. He adds that x-factor with 93 MPH yorkers and 70 mph slower balls.

Our record over our last 15 T20 internationals is pretty great as well.