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Thread: South African Domestic Season 2016/17

  1. #61
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Not sure I've got the enthusiasm as I once did for cricket let alone the passion with which I've watched and studied South Africa's cricketing past that has graced the international stage and in some cases not enough.

    But as I type this we about to enter another 2-match-test-series and SA cricket is at an all-time low in terms of quality (since the 40's -50s ?) and are picking teams are racial grounds again. How is this different to apartheid and putting us in isolation ? If the ICC had any integrity they will start to look at our situation with interest.

    Our domestic game is so weak due to racial quotas which in turn is not setting up our best players to be good enough for the international stage. Our SA 'A' team and SA u19 have been embarrassed like never before. We sitting with a coach who probably is out of his depth and is only sticking around because he is a yes-man (CSA transformation) and the lack of money the CSA has to sack him off ?

    In recent months SA cricket has not only lost a young cricketer or two but more importantly some of our best cricketing minds who coach like Allan Donald, HD Ackerman, Rob Walter to name but a few. Malibongwe Maketa, Vince Barnes and Shane Burger are with the South African 'A' team. Really ? I'm flabbergasted.

    Let's not forget to mention Tsolekile & his gang of match-fixers. Tsolekile was never good enough for international cricket but he thought the game owed him something and he said stuff professionalism and respect of the local game. It's bad that these sorts of characters have been working with the next generation of SA cricketers. Tsotsobe for some time was known as a lazy prick who thought the game owed him the world and never put in the work ethic expected of international cricketer.

    I've never seen South African cricket so directionless.

    But trying to get positive ahead of a new season but I don't think CSA will get any of my money watching live cricket and I hope others follow suit because SA cricket is dying quickly. More quickly than I ever imagined.
    I`m not nearly as pessimistic as you... while I do think that CSA are not great and the political issues are not good; I don`t think that the entire SA cricket is about to crumble. The economic issues for CSA and cricketers in SA are pretty much a continuation of economic issues in SA regarding everything. Regarding the picking of the team on racial grounds... much has been said and little seen at international level and nobody has been picked for SA side as a pure quota player yet... injuries may change that, but we shall see. This argument has been has been going since Amla was picked way back when. The SA 'A' sides poor performance was not good and their where a couple of hangers on but nobody showed a great deal. I also think that the whole purpose was to give younger guys real experience in foreign conditions, including, in this case, pink ball cricket which could not have been easy. Domestic cricket is for me the biggest issue, the quota system is not helping anybody particularly without enough support from CSA at school and club level but something needed to be done to force the franchises to do more as well.... such a political, social and emotive issue from all corners.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    On the positive side trying to look at the young talent around & what they doing in the off-season who should be fast-tracked into SA set-up due to the state of our domestic game :

    Aiden Markram - 2nd leading run scorer in the Bolton League
    Theunis de Bruyn - With SA 'A'. Scored a couple of 50's v Zim. Didn't play tests v Australia 'A' but with the 50-over squad.
    Zubayr Hamza - Wylie predicts bright future for Hamza - SuperSport - Cricket
    Jason Smith - Smith a potential star in the making - SuperSport - Cricket
    Wiaan Mulder - Lions coach backs young Wiaan to produce | IOL
    Calvin Savage - Leading wicket-taker in the Kent League & chipping in with runs
    Andile Phehlukwayo - one of the stand-outs in SA 'A' series considering age.
    Daryn Dupavillon - Coming back from shoulder surgery in the off-season
    Duanne Olivier - Good start for SA 'A' & hopefully it becomes obvious with Dupavillon that they jump Viljoen,De Lange,Paterson,Hendricks,Magala very soon.
    This... think we still have a great deal of talent coming through. Olivier should be the next bowler into the SA side (after Morkel and Abbott maybe). Have some decent depth their. Love the look of Hamza. Phelukwayo keeps looking better along with Savage.

    Coaching is a bigger issue atm than players, as you mentioned.
    Last edited by StephenZA; 15-08-2016 at 02:58 AM.
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  2. #62
    International Regular SeamUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    I`m not nearly as pessimistic as you... while I do think that CSA are not great and the political issues are not good; I don`t think that the entire SA cricket is about to crumble. The economic issues for CSA and cricketers in SA are pretty much a continuation of economic issues in SA regarding everything. Regarding the picking of the team on racial grounds... much has been said and little seen at international level and nobody has been picked for SA side as a pure quota player yet... injuries may change that, but we shall see. This argument has been has been going since Amla was picked way back when. The SA 'A' sides poor performance was not good and their where a couple of hangers on but nobody showed a great deal. I also think that the whole purpose was to give younger guys real experience in foreign conditions, including, in this case, pink ball cricket which could not have been easy. Domestic cricket is for me the biggest issue, the quota system is not helping anybody particularly without enough support from CSA at school and club level but something needed to be done to force the franchises to do more as well.... such a political, social and emotive issue from all corners.

    This... think we still have a great deal of talent coming through. Olivier should be the next bowler into the SA side (after Morkel and Abbott maybe). Have some decent depth their. Love the look of Hamza. Phelukwayo keeps looking better along with Savage.

    Coaching is a bigger issue atm than players, as you mentioned.
    That is fair enough. You entitled to your opinion. But there is only one direction we going at the moment and that is free-fall to me.

    Those young players aren't being tested in hardened environments like our previous cricketers have been & what role models do they have ? How can they become the best they can be in our current environment. That to me is huge. We can't even look after out talented cricketers. Whether it is coaching or opportunities.

  3. #63
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    That is fair enough. You entitled to your opinion. But there is only one direction we going at the moment and that is free-fall to me.

    Those young players aren't being tested in hardened environments like our previous cricketers have been & what role models do they have ? How can they become the best they can be in our current environment. That to me is huge. We can't even look after out talented cricketers. Whether it is coaching or opportunities.
    I think that CSA has recognized this and its one of the reasons that the SA 'A' sides are traveling more than ever. Also, good or bad, a number of SA players are playing some county cricket that will help develop their games. SA cricket is going through a tough period but it is not quite doom and gloom for me yet. Problematic is revenue and the fact that people are not attending matches particularly at domestic level, even before all these other issues started. There is just so much sport and its more comfortable from your living room. I really don`t want our SA games looking like the WI recent test matches.
    Last edited by StephenZA; 15-08-2016 at 03:18 AM.

  4. #64
    International Regular SeamUp's Avatar
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    SA 'A' lost again to INDIA 'A' in conditions that should suit SA.

    When last did Reeza Hendricks score runs ? Since he was picked to go to Bangladesh he seems to have suffered stage fright. Actually quite liked him. Good to watch but was capable of playing crucial knocks on testing pitches. Been too long to just be a dip in form/

    With Heino Kuhn. Respect the guy. Solid FC player and scored runs for SA 'A' before but I don't think he would cut the mustard at the next level. Crucial that Stephen Cook steps up for a few years and then hopefully Markram takes his place. In any case - never been a good 50-over player but made captain.

    Dane Vilas rarely steps up when the chips are down like a keeper should with the bat and his keeping is average. Luckily we have a guy to stay for a long time with the Proteas.

    Dwaine Pretorius is steady but having watched him play I am amazed he did as well as he did last season. Put him in our FC set-up when strong a few years ago & I don't think he would be anywhere near SA 'A'.

    Aaron Phangiso is average. Always has been. But we will be stuck with him for a while.

    Sisanda Magala. As suggested before in the thread. Fitness issues & while he has pace , I don't think he knows where to put the ball. At a higher level he will be top batsman's dream to use pace and put bad balls away to the boundary. Much like Viljoen and de Lange but even worse.

    Dane Paterson is steady but won't win games at the highest level. Last season he was found out.

    Reserves : Zondo, Siboto, B.Hendricks have major issues as well.


    So I would only consider De Bruyn, Miller, Adams, Phehlukwayo & Shamsi as players who should definitely be in this SA 'A' 50-over side.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 17-08-2016 at 03:29 AM.


  5. #65
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    So I would only consider De Bruyn, Miller, Adams, Phehlukwayo & Shamsi as players who should definitely be in this SA 'A' 50-over side.
    Agree with all the above... except I`m over Miller. Had his shot could not cut it for me... maybe 20/20. And for me Shamsi has pushed his way to the top for SA side... after Tahir and maybe after Piedt n the Test side.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    Agree with all the above... except I`m over Miller. Had his shot could not cut it for me... maybe 20/20. And for me Shamsi has pushed his way to the top for SA side... after Tahir and maybe after Piedt n the Test side.
    Rossouw and Miller still deserve chances. Those are two you want flush out but still among our better/best. In Rossouw's case - averaged more than van Zyl & Bavuma in Sunfoil Series Cricket and for SA 'A'. Miller does need time away though but still played a good knock of 90 today showing he is above the majority at this level.

    JP Duminy on the other hand has been hung around for ages.

    I like Piedt but it concerns me when he just leaks runs and doesn't take wickets. He seems to go through spells like that. Harmer/Maharaj should also be under consideration with Shamsi.
    Last edited by SeamUp; 17-08-2016 at 03:39 AM.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Rossouw and Miller still deserve chances. Those are two you want flush out but still among our better/best. In Rossouw's case - averaged more than van Zyl & Bavuma in Sunfoil Series Cricket and for SA 'A'. Miller does need time away though but still played a good knock of 90 today showing he is above the majority at this level.

    JP Duminy on the other hand has been hung around for ages.

    I like Piedt but it concerns me when he just leaks runs and doesn't take wickets. He seems to go through spells like that. Harmer/Maharaj should also be under consideration with Shamsi.
    Harmer/Maharaj look good as well... but Shamsi seems to have something extra.

    Duminy such a tough one, cause he does nothing great but just manages to do enough. Nobody else at this stage when given opportunity is really pushing him out of the squad. Rossouw deserves a few more chances. Miller has/had alot of promise but I don`t see the temperament and considering how long he has been in the squad would have liked to see more....

    I think the next 10 months is going to tell us a lot about were SA cricket is heading. Lots of tough international series, will see which players stand up... and how the politics deals with that.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    Harmer/Maharaj look good as well... but Shamsi seems to have something extra.

    Duminy such a tough one, cause he does nothing great but just manages to do enough. Nobody else at this stage when given opportunity is really pushing him out of the squad. Rossouw deserves a few more chances. Miller has/had alot of promise but I don`t see the temperament and considering how long he has been in the squad would have liked to see more....

    I think the next 10 months is going to tell us a lot about were SA cricket is heading. Lots of tough international series, will see which players stand up... and how the politics deals with that.
    With the part in bold. I think so too.

    People not good enough will be found out and vice-versa. Huge period in SA Cricket.

    With the politics - supposedly not in effect yet. Wonder why ? So many repercussions.

  9. #69
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    With the part in bold. I think so too.

    People not good enough will be found out and vice-versa. Huge period in SA Cricket.

    With the politics - supposedly not in effect yet. Wonder why ? So many repercussions.
    I do get a feeling that the international cricket is much closer to were they would like us to be, rather than all the scare mongering and political posturing displayed in the media... domestically much tougher atm. For me the rugby is a much bigger issue, but gets less knee jerk reactions.
    I think that it may be considered over a period of time rather than one game when they look at the 'quota' issue. What may start happening is when we get into dead rubbers they might give the fringe quota players a go and see what happens... We will know for sure after the team selection on Friday.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    I do get a feeling that the international cricket is much closer to were they would like us to be, rather than all the scare mongering and political posturing displayed in the media... domestically much tougher atm. For me the rugby is a much bigger issue, but gets less knee jerk reactions.
    I think that it may be considered over a period of time rather than one game when they look at the 'quota' issue. What may start happening is when we get into dead rubbers they might give the fringe quota players a go and see what happens... We will know for sure after the team selection on Friday.
    Cricket seems to have been hit hardest over quota issues over the years. Probably because of the people who sit in high places in the game being people of colour. Only really now has there been 'major action taken but cricket has had these issues since the late 90's & have been wanting to force the issue to the teams detriment.

    Luckily I don't care two jots about the rugby.

  11. #71
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Cricket seems to have been hit hardest over quota issues over the years. Probably because of the people who sit in high places in the game being people of colour. Only really now has there been 'major action taken but cricket has had these issues since the late 90's & have been wanting to force the issue to the teams detriment.

    Luckily I don't care two jots about the rugby.
    Yeah, cricket has been put under pressure for awhile now and still we have been more than just competitive... nobody is in the SA squad that does not deserve a shot at least. Thats why I don't worry so much about the cricket because are we not that far behind at international level. Domestic needs some help, but if a few more quality players of colour come through there as well then we things will sort itself out quickly...

    Unfortunately I still enjoy my Rugby .... even if I would rather be watching my Test match cricket.
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  12. #72
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    Getting onto the domestic scene. I'm trying to see ways how some of our young 'white' & 'coloured' cricketers can get game time with the new rules. There is talk thought that 12-Province-System is back for 2017/18.

    Savage & Dupavillon may have to fight for a place in the Dolphins teams which shouldn't be the case.

    DOLPHINS
    WHITE : D. van Wyk, Erwee, van Jaarsveld, M. van Wyk, Smit, Delport, Savage, Frylinck, Dupavillon
    In the 4-day stuff they probably go Erwee, van Jaarsveld, M.van Wyk & 2 of Smit, Savage, Dupavillon

    Smith & Hamza may not get in because of 3 'black' players having to play

    COBRAS 4-day team : Puttick, Khomari, [VAN ZYL], Ontong, Ramela, Vilas, Parnell, Linde/Piedt, Moreki, 2 of Kleinveldt, Paterson, Hendricks

    Still think good luck to Markram making the Titans squad with the number of white players contracted. That is why it was a good move for De Bruyn to move to the Knights.

    The situation goes deep and effecting us the top.

  13. #73
    International Vice-Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamUp View Post
    Getting onto the domestic scene. I'm trying to see ways how some of our young 'white' & 'coloured' cricketers can get game time with the new rules. There is talk thought that 12-Province-System is back for 2017/18.

    Savage & Dupavillon may have to fight for a place in the Dolphins teams which shouldn't be the case.

    DOLPHINS
    WHITE : D. van Wyk, Erwee, van Jaarsveld, M. van Wyk, Smit, Delport, Savage, Frylinck, Dupavillon
    In the 4-day stuff they probably go Erwee, van Jaarsveld, M.van Wyk & 2 of Smit, Savage, Dupavillon

    Smith & Hamza may not get in because of 3 'black' players having to play

    COBRAS 4-day team : Puttick, Khomari, [VAN ZYL], Ontong, Ramela, Vilas, Parnell, Linde/Piedt, Moreki, 2 of Kleinveldt, Paterson, Hendricks

    Still think good luck to Markram making the Titans squad with the number of white players contracted. That is why it was a good move for De Bruyn to move to the Knights.

    The situation goes deep and effecting us the top.
    Have to extend the number of franchises, realistically makes no difference to the level of competition atm but allows for more players to play; only sensible way out I can see. Also they need to allow and encourage 'lending' of players who are sitting on the bench in the strong franchises, to the weaker franchises.

  14. #74
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    de bruyn is unlucky not to have playd in the 4 day matches against Aus. A good performance there and a good start to the sunfoil series were what he needed to be in the squad for the Australia tour later this year. He is the best U25 talent in SA.

    There is still a lot of talent coming through. The likes of jason smith, galliem, hamza, moulder, fortuin (all rounder) look promising. If they go on to reach their potential, SA woould be in good hands.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    Have to extend the number of franchises, realistically makes no difference to the level of competition atm but allows for more players to play; only sensible way out I can see. Also they need to allow and encourage 'lending' of players who are sitting on the bench in the strong franchises, to the weaker franchises.


    They already allow that, I think De Bruyn went to the Knights on loan originally.

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